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Simplistic NJFET RIAA
Simplistic NJFET RIAA
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Old 21st March 2010, 12:29 PM   #3401
merlin el mago is offline merlin el mago  Europe
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Yes the tone has changed a lot of, now is more full, rich & warm less analytical, more deep & three-dimensional like with more planes, not sound flat sound more like live.

Yes the tracking is near perfect (you know the perfection doesn't exist).

Yes it's a Lingo driven the Linn.

Some photos just for fun:

Linto

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Setup Tracking Force 2,5g +-0.3g, as you can see at the photo does not coincide

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The setup was do it with this precision arm load meter & a the ArcProctractor specific for the Ekos:

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LCD display 4 digits
Tare full capacity
Max 5g
d=0.002g

I also calculated the different load due to the difference between the height of the vinyl LP the height of the arm load meter.

Last edited by merlin el mago; 21st March 2010 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 21st March 2010, 12:40 PM   #3402
Salas is online now Salas  Greece
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Simplistic NJFET RIAA
When you will have the test record and you will run the tracking test modulation grooves, try to set anti skating by ear. Sit exactly in the middle of your speakers at 2.5m and set it for when the mistracking distortion starts so the crackling noise will come out from both speakers equal at the same time. Also you can use a couple of pins where your load resistor is, so you can easily change between values and types. Like Shinkoh or bulk foil 150R-180R-220R. There must be a subjectively ''right there'' after all work in the phono has been done, considering VTA, VTF, Load, TT support.
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Old 21st March 2010, 03:22 PM   #3403
RCruz is offline RCruz  Switzerland
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Simplistic NJFET RIAA
Quote:
Originally Posted by merlin el mago View Post
@Salas
Many thanks, tomorrow I will start the Rs

@Ricardo
Yes the rectifiers are doubles, I don't compare but possible do a new PS for the regs. & phono RIAA with them to compare against Sikorel, but mine opinion is that are better the Sikorels, I will let you know.

I added the silver mica caps & the resistors to the RIAA with exact values as per your suggestion + 2pF to reach 16nF.

Subjective impressions: 1st is the bass control & now can follow him easily, the mids are rich & full, the highs are sweets, in general seems the music less lost like more tight or focused, also seems more soundstage & more separation between channels, the stereo effect is more marked. Very, very good job Ricardo.

If I extract the 2pF what happens with the sound?
I know that I can hear a 20pF difference but I believe ir will be very difficult to hear the differences using the 2pF or not... you let us know... in theory it should give a little more trebble enfasis without the 2p.

Can you post the final values you chose for the riaa circuit so i can feed them in my spreadsheet... just for comparison purposes
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Old 21st March 2010, 03:33 PM   #3404
merlin el mago is offline merlin el mago  Europe
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LEFT
R1 3K3
R3 47K//1M4 (several resistors to reach the most aprox. value)
R4 6K8
R5 1M13
C3 15.6nF6 // 330pF // 68pF // 2pF
C2 46.3nF // 470pF (several caps to reach the most aprox. value)


RIGHT
R1 3K3
R3 46K8 // 1M9 (several resistors to reach the most aprox. value)
R4 6K79
R5 998K
C3 15.6nF // 330pF // 68pF // 2pF
C2 46.4nF // 450pF (several caps to reach the most aprox. value)
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Old 21st March 2010, 04:31 PM   #3405
RCruz is offline RCruz  Switzerland
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Thank you so much. You must keep in mind that we are only adjusting Salas initial values due to the differences encountered when measuring the real components.

If we could reach the exact values Salas provided in the schematic we would certainly get a more even result.

In your case it is a compromise because the resistors are not paired correctly

I have one build that I use as reference where I could pair everything and the values are precicely acording initial Salas schematic... He made one specifically for my benz ACE cart and it still beats all others. (The optimum gain obtained in this build is also critical for the overall result)

Now you must listen for a while and focus on the VTA and loading. Both are much more critical than all the work done so far.

Last edited by RCruz; 21st March 2010 at 04:41 PM.
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Old 21st March 2010, 05:05 PM   #3406
merlin el mago is offline merlin el mago  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCruz View Post
If we could reach the exact values Salas provided in the schematic we would certainly get a more even result.
As per your advice using Kabusa RIAA calculator with exact values as per Salas schematic gives:

R1 Kabusa = 3.3000 (R1 Salas) + 47.000 (R3 Salas) // 1.000.000 (R5 Salas) = 47.891 input R1 Kabusa value

R4 Salas = 6k963 instead 6k8 diff. +163R or -2%
C2 Salas = 45.644nF instead 47nF diff. 1.36nF or +3%
C3 Salas = 15.661nF instead 16nF diff. 0.34nF or +2%

Or I'm losing something or can't see a real matching between the ideal RIAA & our RIAA values.
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Old 21st March 2010, 05:46 PM   #3407
merlin el mago is offline merlin el mago  Europe
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Ricardo, I am thinking to buy a Vishay "nude" for R4 6K963 with exact value to Michael Percy, also to buy several Shinkohs 47k to Pcx to measure & get the 47K needefor Right channel & use mine Caddocks MK132 1Meg for R5.

Now I know how much important is to have a well matched RIAA, do you do the same if was for you?

I am really interested in your opinion, thanks.
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Old 21st March 2010, 06:03 PM   #3408
merlin el mago is offline merlin el mago  Europe
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@Salas, I have bought 3214 the HFN test LP here:

British Audio Products Online - Hi Fi News Test LP

When arrives I will do the setup as per you advice
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Old 21st March 2010, 08:16 PM   #3409
RCruz is offline RCruz  Switzerland
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Simplistic NJFET RIAA
Quote:
Originally Posted by merlin el mago View Post
As per your advice using Kabusa RIAA calculator with exact values as per Salas schematic gives:

R1 Kabusa = 3.3000 (R1 Salas) + 47.000 (R3 Salas) // 1.000.000 (R5 Salas) = 47.891 input R1 Kabusa value

R4 Salas = 6k963 instead 6k8 diff. +163R or -2%
C2 Salas = 45.644nF instead 47nF diff. 1.36nF or +3%
C3 Salas = 15.661nF instead 16nF diff. 0.34nF or +2%

Or I'm losing something or can't see a real matching between the ideal RIAA & our RIAA values.
I remenber Salas sugested you to // 2M over 47kr.
Doing so it will match almost perfectly.

Also I believe he does simulate riaa behaviour including all the parts (not only the eq part)
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Old 21st March 2010, 08:24 PM   #3410
RCruz is offline RCruz  Switzerland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merlin el mago View Post
Ricardo, I am thinking to buy a Vishay "nude" for R4 6K963 with exact value to Michael Percy, also to buy several Shinkohs 47k to Pcx to measure & get the 47K needefor Right channel & use mine Caddocks MK132 1Meg for R5.

Now I know how much important is to have a well matched RIAA, do you do the same if was for you?

I am really interested in your opinion, thanks.
IMO you should pair all components as closely as possible. This will get you a true stereo image. After that you must retune.

If you change R4 from 6k8 to 6k963, you will change the presentation in the mids and will need to change all the other values.

I consider a best practice to determine the resistors values, and place the caps a little below spec so you can finetune just by placing more small caps //
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