Well, look at here NICHICON CORPORATION | Product & Technology
Long Life are Nichicon LGY or LGR.... (105C°
)
Long Life are Nichicon LGY or LGR.... (105C°
)
I don't worry about 105 deg c for consumer audio gear. I do worry about service life rating. Cap life predictions also include a current on the foil factor which is tested at maximum current 100% of the time. Music has a 5% crest factor except for techno & PA in beach bars, so the actual current in service doesn't kill the cap foil IMHO. Water leakage does. TV horizontal circuits are back to the 100% current model, you don't get bonus time in a TV cap.
The rubber sealing the water in the cap varies, from 2 year products used in cheap computer boards and TV accessories, to 20 year products used in some PA brands, to epoxy forever sealant used in a few fender amps of the 1970's and not much else. Some sardine tin (crimp seal) electrolytics sold in Hammond tone cabinets of the 1940's are still doing fine, ref David of organforum.
Mouser makes you download the datasheet to see the cap service life, digikey and farnell have it in the selector table. I usually buy from the latter. Some of my replacement caps with longer service life are 15 years old, still doing fine. The caps I got off the shelf at the TV parts store, those were **** and had to be replaced at 7-10 years. My ST70 amp has had 4 sets of e-caps. Too much work.
The rubber sealing the water in the cap varies, from 2 year products used in cheap computer boards and TV accessories, to 20 year products used in some PA brands, to epoxy forever sealant used in a few fender amps of the 1970's and not much else. Some sardine tin (crimp seal) electrolytics sold in Hammond tone cabinets of the 1940's are still doing fine, ref David of organforum.
Mouser makes you download the datasheet to see the cap service life, digikey and farnell have it in the selector table. I usually buy from the latter. Some of my replacement caps with longer service life are 15 years old, still doing fine. The caps I got off the shelf at the TV parts store, those were **** and had to be replaced at 7-10 years. My ST70 amp has had 4 sets of e-caps. Too much work.
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Trade off : sound or service life... or both
Hi indianajo,
Service life on a capacitor is not about life in hours at maximal temperature grade ? If yes the higher temperature grade the better, no ?
Halas one must believe what datasheet are saying... some caps have 10 000 hours at 105C° like Panasonic FR (a good cap for audio) but what about too low ESR at this post rectifier diodes area ? Does it not affect the life time here ?
About the rubber I assume some industrial caps or automotive ranked are agging better? Btw it's important not to play with the cap leads: bonding it, etc.
Also here the op want maybe not to degrade the sounding signature, imho it's less risky to choose a cap inside the same brand and of course sames values !
Btw, we do not know about the brand and serie of the original power supply caps of this preamp. Maybe it could help to know it ?
Hi indianajo,
Service life on a capacitor is not about life in hours at maximal temperature grade ? If yes the higher temperature grade the better, no ?
Halas one must believe what datasheet are saying... some caps have 10 000 hours at 105C° like Panasonic FR (a good cap for audio) but what about too low ESR at this post rectifier diodes area ? Does it not affect the life time here ?
About the rubber I assume some industrial caps or automotive ranked are agging better? Btw it's important not to play with the cap leads: bonding it, etc.
Also here the op want maybe not to degrade the sounding signature, imho it's less risky to choose a cap inside the same brand and of course sames values !
Btw, we do not know about the brand and serie of the original power supply caps of this preamp. Maybe it could help to know it ?
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Any recap/mod should start with the service manual. YAMAHA C80 Service Manual download
Normally you will find schematics, PCB layouts, parts list and how to dismantle the unit. From the service manual, I have discovered that we are talking about C211,212,367,368, have 4 pins, 4700uF/35V. The rail voltages are 21,3 for one pair and 28V for the other. The actual voltage could be more as these are used before the regulators. Something that you might want to measure.
Normally you will find schematics, PCB layouts, parts list and how to dismantle the unit. From the service manual, I have discovered that we are talking about C211,212,367,368, have 4 pins, 4700uF/35V. The rail voltages are 21,3 for one pair and 28V for the other. The actual voltage could be more as these are used before the regulators. Something that you might want to measure.
If I see a 5000 hour cap at 85 C and a 2000 hour cap at 105 C I'll buy the 85 C for audio gear. To me an audio user the rubber matters more than the foil. They don't tell you what they used, no way to find out. Service life spec includes both.
I've replaced over 300 e-caps in amps, radios, and organs, and haven't had any sound problems. I did get some reject CDE from stereocostcutters that leaked and shorted, but that was 3 decades ago, that retailer is dead. I did find polyester instead of paper caps rather vile sounding, but you can't get paper .2 uf 200 v 10% caps anymore. Hint to OP, don't replace any plastic film or ceramic caps, they should last 100 years. Paper dielectric ended about 1964.
I'm not worried about low ESR, haven't blown any rectifier diodes or arced any rectifier tubes yet.
If you read datasheets, CDE, united chemicon, others have a higher ripple factor allowed at the end of their quoted service life test than Panasonic, Nichicon, Rubicon, Vishay. I've used some of the first two when that was the best I could get, but prefer the latter when I can get them. FP doesn't do service live tests, I have some that haven't blown up yet but don't exactly recommend them.
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Thanks for everyone's help, I finally chose LKG1H472MESBBK Nichicon | Mouser, because the size is similar, a little smaller so I choose a 50V instead of original 35V. It is a little shorter is just give me some space to deal with the lead, because the original is 4 leads but I could not find any 4 leads cap, I have to modify this 2 leads snap in to fit the place. Thanks again.
Hi zhloea,
Because these hard leads are short and a little bonded you have no more than 1 mm or 2 mm room to enlarge the leads pitch (not made as the usual long leads AFAIK).
So in this 30 mm diameter cap, the pitch between leads is 10 mm. How much mm is the gap on the pcb between the positive vias and the GND vias in front of it ? If 15 mm for example it will not be the good reference to deal with.
Tell us please if you are ok with the sound after vs the former cap...
Because these hard leads are short and a little bonded you have no more than 1 mm or 2 mm room to enlarge the leads pitch (not made as the usual long leads AFAIK).
So in this 30 mm diameter cap, the pitch between leads is 10 mm. How much mm is the gap on the pcb between the positive vias and the GND vias in front of it ? If 15 mm for example it will not be the good reference to deal with.
Tell us please if you are ok with the sound after vs the former cap...
It might be not easy to cope with this 4 terminals to 2 adaptatation.
You do need to manage very low resistance connections for an efficient work of these capacitors.
I do not know the purpose of the 4 terminals.
Does that mean there are two caps inside ?
Or there is a single cap ? with extra terminals to make it easy, wiring caps in parallel. I have seen this on AC caps used on asynchronous electric motors.
You do need to manage very low resistance connections for an efficient work of these capacitors.
I do not know the purpose of the 4 terminals.
Does that mean there are two caps inside ?
Or there is a single cap ? with extra terminals to make it easy, wiring caps in parallel. I have seen this on AC caps used on asynchronous electric motors.
I don't hink Yamaha ever worked with two poles 4 leads caps a la Jensen. Here with such caps I believe 3 leads are the negative side or at least two are not polarized in the worst case.
I saw such a cap in some NAD amps.
Easy to check if the leads are connected together with a DVM, the same with the 3 pcb vias.
I saw such a cap in some NAD amps.
Easy to check if the leads are connected together with a DVM, the same with the 3 pcb vias.
caps arrived and have another question
These are the caps:
WechatIMG1.jpeg - Google Drive
And I plan to use the wires down below to solder on the cap as the extension,
WechatIMG3.jpeg - Google Drive my question is:
Does this will impact the sound quality? (because the wire do have some resistance) If so, how long wires could have a significant impact? Will just 2 inches be a matter?
These are the caps:
WechatIMG1.jpeg - Google Drive
And I plan to use the wires down below to solder on the cap as the extension,
WechatIMG3.jpeg - Google Drive my question is:
Does this will impact the sound quality? (because the wire do have some resistance) If so, how long wires could have a significant impact? Will just 2 inches be a matter?
original is 4 foot, 2 are actually used another 2 for stable ..., the space between the leads are too wide to fit any modern snapin cap, I have saw a people did recap with the same model I have, he just use double solder wire to make an extension, but it is pretty ugly, so I want to use regular wires, thanks for asking
Click "go advanced" at the bottom of the regular quick post. A screen will come up that will allow you to browse for images on your hard drive, or on a public website. Upload those images. This is better than links because in the website, they are long lived. Many like me will not click on external links because that is a way viruses are transmitted. Got one from electonics-tutorials.org that way. If you edit your post, you have to click go advanced again because the site will delete the images with the regular post button.
BTW I've used wires 3" long in my PV-1.3k PA amp to convert caps to the old board. No problem. They were 18 ga though, which is pretty fat. Some people worry about audio amp response to 200 khz; my hearing stops at 14 khz so I don't care about bragging rights. My best speaker stops at the same high freq.
BTW I've used wires 3" long in my PV-1.3k PA amp to convert caps to the old board. No problem. They were 18 ga though, which is pretty fat. Some people worry about audio amp response to 200 khz; my hearing stops at 14 khz so I don't care about bragging rights. My best speaker stops at the same high freq.
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Hi all, I recap my c-80 the day before yesterday, I am shocking....
A. I will post some pics later, the result is:
1. I destroyed my preamp
2. I destroyed one speaker channel of my m-80 power amp
3. I destroyed right middle speaker of my Klipsch k3.2
B. the story in short version
everything looks good but when I connect them to my power amp then I hear a 'kkkkk' loud sound then the world is quiet, my power amp get into protection mode, after unplug the power and change the fuse, my power amp A B channel come back, but the C channel that connected the speakers when accident happen is gone forever.
C.How about me and what is going on now
1. I almost cry when it happens
2. after two hours, I figured out what is damaged, then I order a JBL 8'' subwoofer, and it comes today, I swap it then it works, I actually gained more bass now ...
3. in the third hour I begin to look for a new c-80, then I found one, I bought it today after driving about 200 mils (with an unbelievably reasonable price) , the new one looks much better than my old one, the sound is the same, but the caps in it also almost burst, I'd say the caps in the new one is worse than the old one originally has.
D.questions
For now, I just have one question, if someday, the caps in the new one finally are burst up or some kind of failed or damaged by themselves, what will happen? It will destroy my power amp or something else?
I definitely will have a follow-up post to show you guys what the old one looks like and let you guys help me to figure out what happens. But now I have to go to sleep, these days...are frustrated!!!!!!
A. I will post some pics later, the result is:
1. I destroyed my preamp
2. I destroyed one speaker channel of my m-80 power amp
3. I destroyed right middle speaker of my Klipsch k3.2
B. the story in short version
everything looks good but when I connect them to my power amp then I hear a 'kkkkk' loud sound then the world is quiet, my power amp get into protection mode, after unplug the power and change the fuse, my power amp A B channel come back, but the C channel that connected the speakers when accident happen is gone forever.
C.How about me and what is going on now
1. I almost cry when it happens
2. after two hours, I figured out what is damaged, then I order a JBL 8'' subwoofer, and it comes today, I swap it then it works, I actually gained more bass now ...
3. in the third hour I begin to look for a new c-80, then I found one, I bought it today after driving about 200 mils (with an unbelievably reasonable price) , the new one looks much better than my old one, the sound is the same, but the caps in it also almost burst, I'd say the caps in the new one is worse than the old one originally has.
D.questions
For now, I just have one question, if someday, the caps in the new one finally are burst up or some kind of failed or damaged by themselves, what will happen? It will destroy my power amp or something else?
I definitely will have a follow-up post to show you guys what the old one looks like and let you guys help me to figure out what happens. But now I have to go to sleep, these days...are frustrated!!!!!!
Hi all, I recap my c-80 the day before yesterday, I am shocking....
A. I will post some pics later, the result is:
1. I destroyed my preamp
2. I destroyed one speaker channel of my m-80 power amp
3. I destroyed right middle speaker of my Klipsch k3.2
B. the story in short version
everything looks good but when I connect them to my power amp then I hear a 'kkkkk' loud sound then the world is quiet, my power amp get into protection mode, after unplug the power and change the fuse, my power amp A B channel come back, but the C channel that connected the speakers when accident happen is gone forever.
C.How about me and what is going on now
1. I almost cry when it happens
2. after two hours, I figured out what is damaged, then I order a JBL 8'' subwoofer, and it comes today, I swap it then it works, I actually gained more bass now ...
3. in the third hour I begin to look for a new c-80, then I found one, I bought it today after driving about 200 mils (with an unbelievably reasonable price) , the new one looks much better than my old one, the sound is the same, but the caps in it also almost burst, I'd say the caps in the new one is worse than the old one originally has.
D.questions
For now, I just have one question, if someday, the caps in the new one finally are burst up or some kind of failed or damaged by themselves, what will happen? It will destroy my power amp or something else?
I definitely will have a follow-up post to show you guys what the old one looks like and let you guys help me to figure out what happens. But now I have to go to sleep, these days...are frustrated!!!!!!
A. I will post some pics later, the result is:
1. I destroyed my preamp
2. I destroyed one speaker channel of my m-80 power amp
3. I destroyed right middle speaker of my Klipsch k3.2
B. the story in short version
everything looks good but when I connect them to my power amp then I hear a 'kkkkk' loud sound then the world is quiet, my power amp get into protection mode, after unplug the power and change the fuse, my power amp A B channel come back, but the C channel that connected the speakers when accident happen is gone forever.
C.How about me and what is going on now
1. I almost cry when it happens
2. after two hours, I figured out what is damaged, then I order a JBL 8'' subwoofer, and it comes today, I swap it then it works, I actually gained more bass now ...
3. in the third hour I begin to look for a new c-80, then I found one, I bought it today after driving about 200 mils (with an unbelievably reasonable price) , the new one looks much better than my old one, the sound is the same, but the caps in it also almost burst, I'd say the caps in the new one is worse than the old one originally has.
D.questions
For now, I just have one question, if someday, the caps in the new one finally are burst up or some kind of failed or damaged by themselves, what will happen? It will destroy my power amp or something else?
I definitely will have a follow-up post to show you guys what the old one looks like and let you guys help me to figure out what happens. But now I have to go to sleep, these days...are frustrated!!!!!!
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