This IS going to stop.
You've all been spanking Chris Daly and getting away with it for far too long. With a bit of luck an honest moderator is going to deal with nasty people once and for all - you're all around like buzzards when Chris posts something. It's not needed here at all - EVER
Some of us want to learn something, improve our skills and understanding and benefit by enjoying music more. Many are afraid to post as a lot of experts can make us feel like we're back in the classroom treated like the special needs kids.
It's not in the spirit of this place at all and the atmosphere is toxic.
' If you can't say something nice don't say anything at all ' was my mothers thing
We can still learn from that
I'm done now...
You've all been spanking Chris Daly and getting away with it for far too long. With a bit of luck an honest moderator is going to deal with nasty people once and for all - you're all around like buzzards when Chris posts something. It's not needed here at all - EVER
Some of us want to learn something, improve our skills and understanding and benefit by enjoying music more. Many are afraid to post as a lot of experts can make us feel like we're back in the classroom treated like the special needs kids.
It's not in the spirit of this place at all and the atmosphere is toxic.
' If you can't say something nice don't say anything at all ' was my mothers thing
We can still learn from that
I'm done now...
...and just what does that mean exactly ?
Is that more sarcasm ?
See........it never ends does it ?
Hope you don't mind me assisting the answer on behalf of Andrew, Andrew has at the present time just one of the three available stereo inputs connected.
The connections are AC 12v - 0V , or DC up to 18v ( between 15vDC and 18V DC a resistor of 470 ohms is advised inward to the blue block )
Chassis ground is connected at the Green Block, as well as optional connection to back to back diodes which separate signal ground from DC ground, these are Shottky or UF types. this connection can save expensive damage to partnering equipment where RCA leads are pulled or plugged. There is from my observations no audio change with or without connection to the back to back diodes, and remain wise to provide choice of use vs none. It is seen here advocated by Analog Devices at "Grounding summary" Staying Well Grounded | Analog Devices
On the smaller side we see connection for the potentiometer wiper available on each receptacle, next is anode connection for the series anodes normally wired to one pole of the switch, and contacts then distributing to each of the 3 series LDR pairs, the next receptacle is for Shunt anode wired to the LDR board shunt pair. A mute can be achieved by having the wiring for series anodes turning on or off as the case may be - in the process providing total silence, as the shunt pair remain on.
At the top same side is what is referred to as the start circuit, this was discovered over a year ago to achieve with a 50k potentiometer ability for silence and gradual volume - solving the usual problem of LDR's not being able to be fully turned off. Prior to that implementation volume was in the anodes, but a change to cathode volume brought much improvement. The start connection being at the very top receptacle, the one next to it on the same blue block reserved for providing the ability for the start circuit to be fitted under the main board suiting earlier kits.
The attached diagram shows the board connections.
Attachments
No a statement of fact, I see nothing but acrimony here virtually nothing technical.
Oh no that is just not true, try double blind listening or any number of other topics.
Why do proponents of LDR's not just accept that the distortions they have might please some folks. I have a large body of evidence that "accurate" reproduction in the rigid sense pleases almost nobody.
In that case publish your body of evidence and...I notice that ' spaceistheplace ' ( your buddy ) has not contributed lately here and is more than likely not in the process of assembling an LDR based volume control for his own curiosity as he falsely claimed.
He's just another argumentative a...hole
I checked....
This place is rammed with them...
Your question is actually very good, but question loaded as to say all LDR implementations are the same which they are not.
The good points I see from it are, distortions in LDR's have IMO very little to do with the actual NSL32SR3 device, rather distortions arise from the way they are implemented. History will show various circuits Silonex used
https://www.cresttech.com.au/pdf/Silonex/levelcontrol.pdf
were created and measured at the same time as they were marketing LDR's
I can see one department saying to the next .... hurry up we need to get these in the marketplace.... so my estimation at some point a reasonable circuit was arrived at to appease all departments, so everyone was paid the following week
A feature of figure 10 in the Silonex data is a 4148 diode lifting the cathode return for the shunt pair.
You are right where reproduction is provided in the rigid sense, that it appeases almost nobody. Our ears IMO are far better at discerning what is
good sound vs not so good.
Translating this into circuitry with LDR's is what I have been doing for over 10 years
I agree, these condescending attacks on Chris has got to stop. I recently finished Chris’ stereo coffee and been listening to it everyday this month and as hard as i try to find the faults in the design mentioned here I just can’t hear any.
Pls don’t ask me for any measurements or technical data whatsoever as I can’t provide any. I just trust my ears and aware of what I like and don’t like in what I hear.
Kudos to Chris for providing a very good product at a very reasonable price esp for cheap diyers like me. Don’t listen to the naysayers. Continue developing your product.
Pls don’t ask me for any measurements or technical data whatsoever as I can’t provide any. I just trust my ears and aware of what I like and don’t like in what I hear.
Kudos to Chris for providing a very good product at a very reasonable price esp for cheap diyers like me. Don’t listen to the naysayers. Continue developing your product.
Then the idea of item "A" sounding better than "B" is nothing more than psychological. You admitted that its an L pad another term for volume control/ voltage splitter. The only difference is in the LED's control. There is no connection between the LED portion and the resistive portion. There is no buffer or added circuitry in the audio leg the resistive portion of the control and the grounds are not shared.
Its pretty simple Chris. It cannot have better bass response or better or clearer midrange or highs simple because its nothing more than a simple voltage splitter/volume control. The only possible difference is that yours might possibly track slightly better and your might provide more inputs.
My Audio is simple...
My speakers are a clone of the Klipsch Cornwalls built by myself and DJK in 1988 if memory is correct. The drivers were a product of DJK and the crossovers were a shared product. Where I worked for 26 years I had all the necessary equipment to test and plot the response of these speakers. Dennis and I put together four of them. My linestage is hand made and my mono block amplifiers enjoy everything except the kitchen sink. The speakers are so nearly flat in their plot that no eqing is necessary. No bass controls or treble controls. All of the gear is tube.
So, I consider myself an audiophile. No tweek interconnects, input jacks, output connectors or fancy speaker cables. Having two identical pairs of speakers with identical response allows me to set up two different systems in my very long finished basement. In the past I have tried a number of different interconnects, speaker cables and such that the company that I worked for sold. I provided a honest A/B when asked to check out an item. In addition I also provided graphed documented results and distortion tests to show if there was any difference in performance. Yes, we were even sent products that were under development from major companies that I cannot mention per agreements for evaluation. I was told to evaluate and test and run them thru their paces and note my thoughts and findings.
So, I call a spade a spade. If an item makes a claim that is impossible or is nothing more than snake oil I will call it what it is.
Hopefully things can get turned down a notch in this thread!!!
I've been using an LDR volume control for 3 years now. And not long after getting comfortable with it, and liking it, I started a thread here all about it. I learned first hand how nasty things can be some times. Nevertheless, I got through it and learned a little bit in the process.
The major objection to LDR volume controls is the distortion component. And it's there. It's not hard to hear in a comparison with a stepped attenuator. If you want data, well the distortion file was posted in my thread. It's there.
And thus the question above, which is actually a very good question and has gone totally ignored in this thread.
So how does this distortion component compare to the other distortion components in an audio playback system? It is presented in the question as being somewhat of a dominant overriding issue.
How about the distortion profile of an amplifier in comparison to the LDR? An amplifier harmonic distortion profile of an amplifier, any amplifier, is far more extensive than the small amount of third order distortion of an LDR. Look at any frequency or many frequency, as you like.
What about the distortion of a loudspeaker?
What about the nodes, nulls and RT-60 of the listening room?
So, how does the distortion of an LDR compare to all this?
Thanks for sharing your system details. The difference why it is sounding better is arising from the extensive circuitry involved with LED control.
It starts to become apparent where no parallel components are placed across the LED anode and cathode, I discovered this over 9 years ago, however that is only the start with concepts to improve audio purpose LDR's .
So if you want to experiment to see for yourself - rather than constantly disbelieve and go round in circles, start by removing any capacitors resistors or internal resistances device resistances that are a direct parallel across the anode and cathode, and you should start to hear difference of A vs B
Ironical but see DF 96 here a few days ago agreeing to the removal of capacitor bypass capacitors as a parallel. Demonstrating the pitfalls of paralleling capacitors
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And those few people you’d have to put a gun to my head to spend an evening with.
It’s at least an order of magnitude worse than in-laws.
No need for the vitriol.
I assembled one.
I had it plugged in for about 20 minutes and found it definitely sounded markedly different in comparison to my existing preamp.
However it sounded so poor and thin I figured I likely didn’t calibrate it correctly, so it’s back in pieces in the study. Life has recently popped up so not as much time.
With my free time I prefer usually to listen to music, not to equipment.
If you’d like photographic evidence I’d be happy to oblige.
However Chris would likely snub his nose at Vincent’s design, anyhow.
Perhaps Chris should loan one of his particular design to others here for evaluation, since he feels his implementation is unique.
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Thanks for your question. The distortion point is principally brought up so as to finish conversations quickly and leave everyone disheartened and lost, with the person commenting settling back comfortably in their armchair watching the misery they have caused.
From my experience whatever distortions arise are NOT the actual NSL32SR3 LDR, that has suffered blame for over 20 years - rather they arise from not meeting the very precise control requirements that a NSL32SR3 needs.
When captured via circuitry in its ideal zone a NSL32SR3 with listening appears to me and others similarly listening intently to it, to be lacking any appreciable or more easily worded distracting distortion.
I have Quad 306 amps running into JR149 speakers most of the time to do my listening. Piano remains for me one of the best tests. I am of the opinion the LDR circuit rivals or betters the power amp for whatever distortion exists which for a 306 is 0.01%
I will however need Tomchr experience with measuring distortion to finally put this point to rest which has plagued otherwise decent conversations on this forum for at least 9 years.
Could you explain your question a bit better?
Are you aware of the Silonex distortion plot?
There was a lot of discussion about this in my thread LDR Attenuator Impressions. Both Mort and George have had their units tested for harmonic distortion and explained the results.
I don't think the existence of third order harmonic distortion with LDR's needs further discussion.
But since it seems to be such a flash point I just think it needs to be considered in relation to other distortions in audio playback systems.
Also, to clarify: my original commentary on this thread was the suspect nature of the OPs review, Chris’ rapid response and his sole forum contributions being in the form of support of his commercial product. Review his posting history to draw your own conclusions.
Honestly I don’t care much about LDRs one way or another.
I was never advocating that LDRs are “bad” just like electric guitars aren’t bad.
Whatever gets you through the night.
However there’s an overwhelming body of evidence they don’t measure as well as other implementations.
Is that bad? No. But it’s not “more pure”.
If you feel differently, provide data to support your claims.
If anyone has spent years of their life developing their product and has no hard data and only generalized conjecture to support their claims.... well, that’s their mistake.
Better yet- send me one. I’ll listen and post it back to you and relay my experiences honestly, whatever they may be.
But differences are likely minor and just like everyone here likely has diminishing vision their ears are not in stellar shape either and won’t probably notice.
Honestly I don’t care much about LDRs one way or another.
I was never advocating that LDRs are “bad” just like electric guitars aren’t bad.
Whatever gets you through the night.
However there’s an overwhelming body of evidence they don’t measure as well as other implementations.
Is that bad? No. But it’s not “more pure”.
If you feel differently, provide data to support your claims.
If anyone has spent years of their life developing their product and has no hard data and only generalized conjecture to support their claims.... well, that’s their mistake.
Better yet- send me one. I’ll listen and post it back to you and relay my experiences honestly, whatever they may be.
But differences are likely minor and just like everyone here likely has diminishing vision their ears are not in stellar shape either and won’t probably notice.
Thanks for your question. The distortion point is principally brought up so as to finish conversations quickly and leave everyone disheartened and lost, with the person commenting settling back comfortably in their armchair watching the misery they have caused.
From my experience whatever distortions arise are NOT the actual NSL32SR3 LDR, that has suffered blame for over 20 years - rather they arise from not meeting the very precise control requirements that a NSL32SR3 needs.
When captured via circuitry in its ideal zone a NSL32SR3 with listening appears to me and others similarly listening intently to it, to be lacking any appreciable or more easily worded distracting distortion.
I have Quad 306 amps running into JR149 speakers most of the time to do my listening. Piano remains for me one of the best tests. I am of the opinion the LDR circuit rivals or betters the power amp for whatever distortion exists which for a 306 is 0.01%
I will however need Tomchr experience with measuring distortion to finally put this point to rest which has plagued otherwise decent conversations on this forum for at least 9 years.
Hi Chris,
For the record I have never listened to one of your units.
I have a DIY Tortuga unit.
I was unaware of the distortion issue until it was brought up in my LDR attenuator impressions thread. I then went and did some comparative listens between my stepped attenuator and the Tortuga unit. There was a difference in sound and I attributed it to the distortion of the LDR.
While this is anectodal evidence, the very worst kind of course, I have found it to be true whenever I have done it, as I have changed things in my system since I first did the comparison.
Yes, I agree with your first paragraph about the distortion point as conversation finisher.
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