Relay constant clicking
Hello All,
Just finished assembly and preparing to start with some music.
When I apply power there is the delay time and relay clicks but they continue constantly ticking. I was expecting a single click. Does the same thing no matter what channel is selected. Tantalum capacitor is installed.
I am feeding +/-17V.
Edit: I only see approx 2V regulator output. Input is 17V.
Any clues?
Thanks in advance,
Mike
Hello All,
Just finished assembly and preparing to start with some music.
When I apply power there is the delay time and relay clicks but they continue constantly ticking. I was expecting a single click. Does the same thing no matter what channel is selected. Tantalum capacitor is installed.
I am feeding +/-17V.
Edit: I only see approx 2V regulator output. Input is 17V.
Any clues?
Thanks in advance,
Mike
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Impressions
OK so here are my thoughts - I am no expert so take these in the spirit intended...
First, the build was done according to the BoM with the exception of center-detent Bourns pots for balance and EQ gain. Also I used Mark Johnson's VRDN for the power supply as I had the parts already (+/- 17V).
My current "reference" for preamp is a self made Neurochrome selector and buffer output (VRDN powered). I have tried a number of different volume attenuators from pots to Muses chip to resistor ladders with some differences in both sound and usability.
I set up an A/B comparison between the NC and DS preamp using the same DAC output and amps. With the DS preamp at neutral balance and EQ out I can tell no difference to the NC buffer based preamp. Again I am not claiming expert level review here, but from my experience it sounds equally transparent to the NC buffer.
The real benefit of this preamp for me is the EQ - it gives the ability to tweak my sound profile based on content, listening level, or mood. I can do this also (digitally) via Roon but I prefer the ability to interact with actual hardware sometimes, and for me this is the perfect preamp with a good range of inputs and outputs, balance and tone controls, and volume. It sounds great and I am very happy with it. It was a great build with no major issues.
I have a tendency to "prototype" these builds then decide if I go all-in for a chassis. This is is a keeper for me and one I will definitely finish out with a chassis which I hope compliments the sound I am now enjoying. Highly recommended.
Notes for further improvement: 12V trigger out circuit on the I/O.
Thank You Doug Self and Carl Huff.
Best, Mike
OK so here are my thoughts - I am no expert so take these in the spirit intended...
First, the build was done according to the BoM with the exception of center-detent Bourns pots for balance and EQ gain. Also I used Mark Johnson's VRDN for the power supply as I had the parts already (+/- 17V).
My current "reference" for preamp is a self made Neurochrome selector and buffer output (VRDN powered). I have tried a number of different volume attenuators from pots to Muses chip to resistor ladders with some differences in both sound and usability.
I set up an A/B comparison between the NC and DS preamp using the same DAC output and amps. With the DS preamp at neutral balance and EQ out I can tell no difference to the NC buffer based preamp. Again I am not claiming expert level review here, but from my experience it sounds equally transparent to the NC buffer.
The real benefit of this preamp for me is the EQ - it gives the ability to tweak my sound profile based on content, listening level, or mood. I can do this also (digitally) via Roon but I prefer the ability to interact with actual hardware sometimes, and for me this is the perfect preamp with a good range of inputs and outputs, balance and tone controls, and volume. It sounds great and I am very happy with it. It was a great build with no major issues.
I have a tendency to "prototype" these builds then decide if I go all-in for a chassis. This is is a keeper for me and one I will definitely finish out with a chassis which I hope compliments the sound I am now enjoying. Highly recommended.
Notes for further improvement: 12V trigger out circuit on the I/O.
Thank You Doug Self and Carl Huff.
Best, Mike
Hello gentlemen,
I've finally started working on mine and am missing a few parts, namely Nichicon UES1V101MPM and UES1V100MEM for one channel. I somehow managed to order components for one channel only
. It appears both are quite hard to find now. Do we have a suitable alternative for those capacitors?
I've finally started working on mine and am missing a few parts, namely Nichicon UES1V101MPM and UES1V100MEM for one channel. I somehow managed to order components for one channel only
. It appears both are quite hard to find now. Do we have a suitable alternative for those capacitors?
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Hello gentlemen,
I've finally started working on mine and am missing a few parts, namely Nichicon UES1V101MPM and UES1V100MEM for one channel. I somehow managed to order components for one channel only
These are coupling capacitors , I believe you can replace them with the same ues nichicon value but 25v instead of 35v , or, even better if you have the space go for the same capacitance but 50v.
Bipolars never last beyond about 1000 hours. By principle, I never use them. Take 2 UPX's and connect them back to back and you get twice the voltage at half the value (so use 2 x 200uF for 100uF final value) and 20,000 hours at 105 degrees. The world will end but your caps will still work.
Never last 1000h? So if I have this preamp on for 3-4h/day that will give me a max of a year of use?
It is 1000h but if the temp is 85c and the capacitor is working literally at the rated voltage .
I am going to ballpark here and assume that these ues caps will probably last at least 10000h if used in this preamp.
It is 1000h but if the temp is 85c and the capacitor is working literally at the rated voltage .
I am going to ballpark here and assume that these ues caps will probably last at least 10000h if used in this preamp.
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Ok but in the same time Linear Audio wrote than the ES Muse have very low distorsion if not the lowest of the lythic family, and that's why they were used a lot on that forum and also in some circuitries described in the pages of Linear Audio where they don't make a lot of sense : power decoupling of oaps if my memory deserves me well of some nice buffers.
Having build this preamp I find the ES bi polar Muse in the power supplies area of this amp sound worse than the classic non polars. Having said that I see no reason why one should not use the ES Muses bipolar when it's in serie on the signal. And I bet one hand you will be very far than the 85°c 1000h last limits... it should last 10 000 to 20 000 hours without problems. The dryness of some dielectric will be more the problem with those numbers in some hot and dry country than cuting the hairs in 4 between the polar and non polar for the serie signal.
I subjectly find this pre sounds bad when populated with 100% of ES bipolar caps but I do hear difference between caps and admit that what I hear at the end is not the pre alone but all the hifi chain through my loudspeakers at the end.
If lasting is a concern for sleeping better (i.e. placebo effect) use Panasonic FC polar caps instead Bi polar Muse. They are clear too (while the numbers of the bipolar distorsion is better), 105°c and automotive rated. And for the powersupply the good everywhere Nichicon SuperThrough... But again who am I thinking there are always margins of improvement whatever the designer talent ?!
Well try, the proof is on the cake at the end.
Having build this preamp I find the ES bi polar Muse in the power supplies area of this amp sound worse than the classic non polars. Having said that I see no reason why one should not use the ES Muses bipolar when it's in serie on the signal. And I bet one hand you will be very far than the 85°c 1000h last limits... it should last 10 000 to 20 000 hours without problems. The dryness of some dielectric will be more the problem with those numbers in some hot and dry country than cuting the hairs in 4 between the polar and non polar for the serie signal.
I subjectly find this pre sounds bad when populated with 100% of ES bipolar caps but I do hear difference between caps and admit that what I hear at the end is not the pre alone but all the hifi chain through my loudspeakers at the end.
If lasting is a concern for sleeping better (i.e. placebo effect) use Panasonic FC polar caps instead Bi polar Muse. They are clear too (while the numbers of the bipolar distorsion is better), 105°c and automotive rated. And for the powersupply the good everywhere Nichicon SuperThrough... But again who am I thinking there are always margins of improvement whatever the designer talent ?!
Well try, the proof is on the cake at the end.
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I guess that when the father of this preamp wrote "the circuitry was only tested with polar electrolytics" he didn't have "I do hear difference between caps" in mind. But I definitely don't know.
Nevertheless, I tried to offer some help to grey1 as he asked for alternatives for the bipolar caps which seem to be currently unavailable.
Nevertheless, I tried to offer some help to grey1 as he asked for alternatives for the bipolar caps which seem to be currently unavailable.
Makes sense, as well as the answer of Asus Lover. If the cap leads spacing is staying the same than the vias spacing.
Elna are making also good bipolar (Digikey ? Elements14?). The said reversed polar - ++- or +--+ in serie with Elna SimicII (lowest voltage are better) works fine, or simply non polar Panasonic FC are just excelent for signals as well. But it will work fine with any caps you have on hands as far leads spacing and minimum voltage is ok. . Icing is...after the cake.
Elna are making also good bipolar (Digikey ? Elements14?). The said reversed polar - ++- or +--+ in serie with Elna SimicII (lowest voltage are better) works fine, or simply non polar Panasonic FC are just excelent for signals as well. But it will work fine with any caps you have on hands as far leads spacing and minimum voltage is ok.
. Icing is...after the cake.
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I guess this would be a good place to ask Mr. Self and Mr. Didden why this preamp design has inter-stage coupling caps at all? The design shown in Elektor does not have any. As has been noted, the inter-stage offset voltages are so small that they do not cause the coupling caps to degrade the signal. So again, why use them at all?