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Old 29th November 2018, 02:25 PM   #121
Zung is offline Zung  Switzerland
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I wouldn't use an input cap.
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Old 30th November 2018, 04:24 PM   #122
triode_al is offline triode_al  Netherlands
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Only use an input cap if you balance that with a similar valued feedback cap!

(See Hiraga's experiments with a "symmetrical" Kaneda power amplifier, I made one and it was lineair up to beyond 400 kHz without feedback, so the cap is not detrimental as such. )
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Old 2nd July 2020, 08:19 AM   #123
triode_al is offline triode_al  Netherlands
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Does anyone have a LTSpice model of the Kaneda (pre)amplifier?
Makes life easier.
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Old 2nd July 2020, 12:36 PM   #124
triode_al is offline triode_al  Netherlands
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Default KanÚda preamp by Jean Hiraga

here is my try on modelling of the KanÚda preamp circuit; I have not the appropriate LTSpice models of the old Japanese transistors so I have used some at hand. The 2SK170 might come close to the 2SK240 I have (but not in Idss but in this config that is of no issue I think, but I really should use a model for the 2SK30AGR. [Who has that??]
I used generic transistors instead of the Japanese ones. They probably fit the picture.

Schermafbeelding 2020-07-02 om 14.29.39.png

The harmonic degradation is a charm to see, and this is at 14 dB out (0 in)
Schermafbeelding 2020-07-02 om 14.37.48.png

I will try to use different output device.
Attached Files
File Type: asc Hiraga Preamp Kaneda 1985.asc (9.7 KB, 27 views)
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Last edited by triode_al; 2nd July 2020 at 12:42 PM.
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Old 3rd July 2020, 08:45 AM   #125
triode_al is offline triode_al  Netherlands
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I found a good 2SK30 model and here is the result:

Hiraga-KanÚda preamp with 2SK30AGR, version 1985.png

No low pass in the feedback yet.
A formidable result. 0Hz - 640 kHz
I think that using the 2SK170 (I have the 2SK240 for the RIAA) should probably require an adaption of the R1, R2, R4 resistors in the input section to get the same wide bandwidth result.

Distortion: at 6 dB output, -100 dB second, -120 dB third, no higher harmonics.
This is thanks to EUVELs nice sim settings I can assure you.

When adapting the Maison de l'Audiophile boards I have had similar results by the way (I shortcircuited one line board populated with the original transistors, impossible to find the same; choose to change to older metal can types.
  • Tested these older transistors a lot. On the testbench, without compensation, a simple high band without any peaks. So indeed it is possible.
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Old 3rd July 2020, 11:17 AM   #126
analog_sa is offline analog_sa  Europe
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Could you share the 2sk30 model?
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Old 3rd July 2020, 12:32 PM   #127
triode_al is offline triode_al  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by analog_sa View Post
Could you share the 2sk30 model?
I have used this LTSpice-model, that holds a section for the different versions; Hiraga requiring the AGR version:

Quote:
*2SK30
*id(R 0.3-0.75 / O 0.6-1.4 / Y 1.2-3.00 / GR 2.6-6.5)
.model 2SK30r NJF(vto=-0.8v beta=0.75m lambda=0 cgd=2.6p cgs=8.2p
+ dev 10% LOT 60%)
.model 2SK30o NJF(vto=-1.1v beta=0.75m lambda=0 cgd=2.6p cgs=8.2p
+ dev 10% LOT 60%)
.model 2SK30y NJF(vto=-1.8v beta=0.75m lambda=0 cgd=2.6p cgs=8.2p
+ dev 10% LOT 60%)
*2SK30AGR
.model 2SK30AGR NJF(vto=-2.8v beta=0.75m lambda=0 cgd=2.6p cgs=8.2p
+ dev 10% LOT 60%)
.model 2SK30atm NJF(beta=.768m vto=-2.70 cgd=2.6p cgs=8.2p dev 10% LOT 60%)
* CQ 1988/7
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Old 4th July 2020, 06:20 PM   #128
bluevas is offline bluevas  Indonesia
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Hello Al,

please try this model :
.MODEL 2SA1316 PNP (IS=10.1F NF=1 BF=910 VAF=161 IKF=60M ISE=1.11P NE=2 BR=4 NR=1 VAR=20 IKR=90M RE=3.15 RB=12.6 RC=1.26 XTB=1.5 CJE=45.5P VJE=1.1 MJE=.5 CJC=14.6P VJC=.3 MJC=.3 TF=3.18N TR=2.21U Vceo=80 Icrating=0.1A mfg=Toshiba

.MODEL 2SC1213 NPN
+IS=210.0E-15 BF=150 NF=1 VAF=20 IKF=500.0E-3 ISE=130.0E-12
+NE=2 BR=25 NR=1 VAR=70 IKR=240.0E-3 ISC=1.650E-9 NC=2
+RB=700.0E-3 IRB=20.00E-3 RBM=816.0E-3 RE=125.0E-3 RC=26.00E-3
+XTB=0 EG=1.11 XTI=3 CJE=270.0E-12 VJE=680.0E-3 MJE=332.0E-3
+TF=1.5E-9 XTF=20 VTF=100 ITF=9 PTF=0
+CJC=54.50E-12 VJC=500.0E-3
+MJC=373.0E-3 XCJC=1 TR=1.000E-9FC=500.0E-3 KF=0 AF=1

With this models I have close value at Q1 collector voltage 602 mV, trim R3 value about 9104 ohm then I got the same voltage at Q2 collector.

I played with your asc file and I change this .four {Freq} V(VUIT) 5 5 .

Have a good day.

Best Regards,


Josh
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Old 4th July 2020, 06:23 PM   #129
bluevas is offline bluevas  Indonesia
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oops, i use this model

.model 2SK30ATM_GR NJF(Vto=-2.4 Beta=0.77m Lambda=1m Is=10f Isr=100f Vk=100 Alpha=10u Rd=30 Rs=30 CGD=9p CGS=9p Pb=0.3 M=0.38 mfg=TOSHIBA)
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Old 4th July 2020, 10:00 PM   #130
analog_sa is offline analog_sa  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triode_al View Post
I have used this LTSpice-model, that holds a section for the different versions; Hiraga requiring the AGR version:

Thank you!
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