yamaha ns10

[2stuffed]

Hi,
I have a set of Yamaha NS10 speakers and wanted to build something with more bass using these drivers and crossover.Has anyone got any ideas if this can be done.Any help would be great.

thanks

 

[Mr Terrorist]

Hi, im new here and Ive also come seeking advice and learning. What I can tell you is that I had a brief encounter many years ago with the ns10 when I was studying a studio engineers course.

They are lovely speakers but do not have the bass extension of larger units. They are generally nearfield monitors in larger studios or the only monitors in a small home/budget studio. My guess would be that Yamaha designed and manufactured the drive units specifically for these cabs and that is why they have always been so popular - they are very well balanced. I think they will have already got the best out of them.

Ive bought a second pair of TDL RTL2s and have decided to start by upgrading the cross over. The standard units are very cheap and I am very interested to hear the difference quality components make. I then might look at replacing the drivers with more expensive ones. Ive just had the back plate off, it looks there is plenty of room for improvement for both crossover and drivers, and internal wiring.

Hope this is of use🙂

 

[Lojzek]

There is 2 potential tweaks to improve bass extension response.

1. Modify the XO filter to get rid of the wide midrange hump
and pad the tweeter down somewhat

2. Make a vented box out of it.

 

[sreten]

Hi,

Forget reusing the drivers in a different loudspeaker.

Sell them for what they are (they go for more than
they are worth in any hifi situation IMO, studio staple)
and buy some better used speakers, is a good plan.

rgds, sreten.

FWIW a rebuild to a vented floorstander is possible,
but it just seems generally a very bad idea overall.

 

[sreten]

Ive bought a second pair of TDL RTL2s and have decided to start by upgrading
the cross over. The standard units are very cheap and I am very interested to
hear the difference quality components make. I then might look at replacing
the drivers with more expensive ones. Ive just had the back plate off, it looks
there is plenty of room for improvement for both crossover and drivers, and
internal wiring.

Hi, don't cross pollute threads, it helps no-one, rgds, sreten.

The above information is entirely irrelevant in this thread.

 

[Mr Terrorist]

Yes sir!

 

[Mr Terrorist]

Hi Lojzek

Are you saying you can improve a speakers sound by modifying the crossover? This something Ive been thinking of myself. How easy is it to work out the crossover points from the components already used?
Regards

 

[picowallspeaker]

2. Make a vented box out of it.

In BR the woofer is subjected to double force ( pressure) than in PS
Dunno in the thin paper cone could stand that 🙄

Regarding crossovers, you'll likely to make it worse !

 

[Mr Terrorist]

Hi Pico

That makes sense, I have just been watching a AV showrooms vid with a 40 yr vet sepaker designed talking about weight of the cone, very interesting.

Would i also be correct in thinking to port these boxes would need some serious calculations to get it right?

Regards

 

[dragonweed]

If you try to port a sealed box (assuming the driver is designed to be used in sealed box) usually the result is pretty dreadful....
With a Qts value of a typical closed box woofer, the ported box will have terrible bump in the upper bass, and nothing below.
Over Qts of 0.42-0.45 (max.) it is not smart to waste your time with reflex design, even if some design software allows it....

 

[2stuffed]

Thanks for your replies.I'll think of another project, maybe a sub.

 

[waxx]

They are rated by music studio's for their clear and defined midrange, but are mostly used with a sub for mixing in studio's. They are in no way hifi speakers, they are popular because if it sounds good on those, it sounds good on every speaker. Mostly they are used in combo with other more precise studio monitors, who have a broader and more neutral frequency response.

I don't know about modifing them. The others on this tread know more, but it seems useless to try. If you change te crossover, the advantage of those dissappears and they are just average 2 way speakers.

Just my thought off course. If you insist to modify them, listen to the others in this tread, not me...

 

[Salas]

Their shallow mid bass alignment allows for boundary reinforcement too because they were usually located on the meter bridge of a huge analog mixer back in the day.

 

[Lojzek]

Hi Lojzek

Are you saying you can improve a speakers sound by modifying the crossover?
How easy is it to work out the crossover points from the components already
used? Regards

Hi Mr T,

although you have decided not to work on this project, questions asked deserve
to be answered. One can modify the way a speaker sounds by modifying XO
filter. Manufacturers do that all the time when they engineer loudspeaker series.

Yamaha states 2 kHz XO frequency for NS10-M and the impedance plot seems
to confirm that.

 

[sreten]

Hi,

I'll reiterate there is absolutely no point in messing with NS10's.
Original examples go for far more than they are worth IMHO.
Sell them and buy some better used hifi loudspeakers.

rgds, sreten.

 

[Lojzek]

I agree there is no point in butchering the original Yamaha
cabinet just to try out stuff, but there is a point for a DIYer
to build another cabinet and reuse the drivers to try another
Xo filter and learn a few things doing so. That may only work
for an individual ready to sacrifice time to learn how to do it
properly which may end up being too long.

 

[xrk971]

Along the lines of what one can do to learn more about making and modifying crossovers - you can take the existing xo and draw a schematic of it with part component values. Run the drivers without a crossover and use a calibrated mic to measure the minimum phase FRD files for each and both in parallel (sans XO) and the import those FRD files into a simulator like PCD or Xsim. Enter the as drawn XO schematic into the simulation program. Then purely on a computer, you can play around with changing component values or even making a new XO altogether without messing up the actual speaker parts. It will be a very accurate way of predicting the final Xo performance. If you end up with a response you like in the sim, maybe try making the xo and listening to it. It's a great learning process. It probably won't yield a better sounding speaker - although flattening the response may help reduce harshness which was sometime accomplished by hanging 2 sheets of Kleenex tissue in front of the tweeter to take the bite off the sound.

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

 

[2stuffed]

Thanks for your thoughts, I'm going to make the larger box like the NS10T ,I have the XO to try. I have plenty of plywood .....

 

[system7]

A little 6 or 7" bass in 18L is never going to be a huge performer at the bottom end, but you can do a bit by lowering the midrange and top subjectively.

I ran XRK971 crossover up the flagpole based on what people say about this closed box speaker. Not bassy, and bright.

A few 10W wirewound resistors make things look better. 2kHz crossover looks right. Must push the tweeter quite hard.

 

[xrk971]

Thanks for doing that System7. How do you happen to have the FRD files for these drivers already? Looks like all it needed was some padding for level balance between bass and tweet. Now we can get rid of the Kleenex. 🙂