My brother's children are enthusiastic young musicians, and he has a music room in his house. The kids have asked for the ability to play amplified keyboards, guitar, sing, etc... so he has acquired a second hand mixing console, a condenser mic, some other equipment. What he needs now is speakers.
His local music shop has a pair of lightly used Yamaha HS8 powered monitors for $500/pair. They are recommending this to him.
He already has several amplifiers which would work fine, so he does not need active speakers.
He recently built a Paul Carmody design for his home theatre setup. He asked me if he could build a better pair of passive speakers for $500 than the Yamaha HS8.
I do not know what to tell him. I know that music instrument and PA equipment is a very different kind of requirement than hi fi speakers. But when I look at the HS8, it seems like a rather conventional 8 inch woofer and 1 inch dome tweeter.
All thoughts are welcome
Jim
His local music shop has a pair of lightly used Yamaha HS8 powered monitors for $500/pair. They are recommending this to him.
He already has several amplifiers which would work fine, so he does not need active speakers.
He recently built a Paul Carmody design for his home theatre setup. He asked me if he could build a better pair of passive speakers for $500 than the Yamaha HS8.
I do not know what to tell him. I know that music instrument and PA equipment is a very different kind of requirement than hi fi speakers. But when I look at the HS8, it seems like a rather conventional 8 inch woofer and 1 inch dome tweeter.
All thoughts are welcome
Jim
There are plenty of old organs around that are no longer wanted and offered for free.
Most of them contain at least one high SPL wide range speaker, some organs have two and more. Quite a few of these drivers are with Alnico magnets.
I am not familiar with the American brands, but can highly recommend Yamaha and Kawai, excellent paper cone drivers, mostly 12 inch, some 15 here and there.
Can go in OB designs or sealed aperiodic because of their high Qts.
One can build a single driver system or 2 way, even 3 way with these.
And they are proper instrument speakers.
One example below.
Most of them contain at least one high SPL wide range speaker, some organs have two and more. Quite a few of these drivers are with Alnico magnets.
I am not familiar with the American brands, but can highly recommend Yamaha and Kawai, excellent paper cone drivers, mostly 12 inch, some 15 here and there.
Can go in OB designs or sealed aperiodic because of their high Qts.
One can build a single driver system or 2 way, even 3 way with these.
And they are proper instrument speakers.
One example below.
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Do the kids want to record or to play reinforced? I think the latter. The Yamaha's are not designed for live venues (as you probably already know) and likely will not survive a not so well played guitar solo. I don't know why the local shop offered him these.
I'd say that your brother could get a secondhand limiter and some PA (10-12" + horn) speakers from Behringer or another known brand, could set up the amp and limiter on a (somehow locked) preset that doesn't destroy speakers or ears and hand over the stuff to his kids. As an alternative, active monitors are almost as cheap as the passive ones, so he could save the trouble of the limiter and separate amp. He'd have a set of party speakers on the side. Oh and do advise him to get two tripods.
I'd say that your brother could get a secondhand limiter and some PA (10-12" + horn) speakers from Behringer or another known brand, could set up the amp and limiter on a (somehow locked) preset that doesn't destroy speakers or ears and hand over the stuff to his kids. As an alternative, active monitors are almost as cheap as the passive ones, so he could save the trouble of the limiter and separate amp. He'd have a set of party speakers on the side. Oh and do advise him to get two tripods.
I am certain something worthwhile could be made of GRS components, a simple passive TMW(12"+6"+1"). Perhaps even 200 bucks would have sufficed for all the parts except finish.
A 2 way TM (10"+1") might work also, and I made once one with Visaton W250-8 and a JBL tweeter. The sensitivity was high and the bass decent. The greatest problem is crossover execution.
A 2 way TM (10"+1") might work also, and I made once one with Visaton W250-8 and a JBL tweeter. The sensitivity was high and the bass decent. The greatest problem is crossover execution.
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Yamaha HS7 Review (studio monitor) | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
Here is the hs7. I bet you can beat the distortion.
Here is the hs7. I bet you can beat the distortion.
Assuming the speakers stay inside the house, I would buy the Yamaha HS8's. They sound good and already are loud enough to damage the hearing of your brother's kids. DIY is not financially viable at this lower price point. They do have small waveguides on the tweeters, so they improve on dispersion as compared to old school 8" / 1" speakers.
It sounds reasonable that passive speakers are better than active speakers at the same price point, but that is not necessarily the case. The crossover, subsonic filter and limiter are important factors in how the speakers perform. In active loudspeakers, these are good and optimized for the specific loudspeaker drivers. An extra op-amp and some resistors cost practically nothing (or extra lines of code for the DSP), so there is no reason to skimp on the crossover. Also amplifiers are cheap nowadays, so the electronics do not raise the price by much.
On the other hand, passive speakers usually have simplified crossovers, as their components are expensive. They also do not come with a built-in limiter and subsonic filter.
It sounds reasonable that passive speakers are better than active speakers at the same price point, but that is not necessarily the case. The crossover, subsonic filter and limiter are important factors in how the speakers perform. In active loudspeakers, these are good and optimized for the specific loudspeaker drivers. An extra op-amp and some resistors cost practically nothing (or extra lines of code for the DSP), so there is no reason to skimp on the crossover. Also amplifiers are cheap nowadays, so the electronics do not raise the price by much.
On the other hand, passive speakers usually have simplified crossovers, as their components are expensive. They also do not come with a built-in limiter and subsonic filter.
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The standard HS8 only has a limiter on the woofer. And with 2k crossover to high the 1” won’t survive.
A little more info from my brother: Mom has set a firm rule that 90 dB SPL is the max allowed before she pulls the plug. So yes, they may be playing electric guitar through the speakers, but they will not be trying to mimic a Fender Twin Reverb amp.
Then your brother has to acquire a SPL meter with remote readout 😉 but 90 dB SPL is no problem for most speakers. It’s only the accidents that happen in live sound that may cause a challenge. Acoustic loops, ill-connected equipment, wrong settings on the console and the like. But if they are careful, no problem. And it’s not those Yamaha’ can’t stand any abuse at all. I wouldn’t pick them though.
There was a thread in the PA section about diy stage monitors. Might have something you could build within the budget.
I have seen flat pack pa cabinets at parts express also.
I have seen flat pack pa cabinets at parts express also.
go with HS8, they sound pretty good, they can be listening today, they can probably play from their phones.
HS8 is a decent choice as first monitors, and the best part is they can sell them easily when they find their own favorite in the future (...or in case they lose interest in making music...).
You need to clarify how they intend to use the speakers. If it is a band situation, then an HS8-type speaker may not be a good solution. Apart from linear frequency response, a critical requirement for an instrument speaker is very good dynamic range.
The Yamaha HS8 or Behringer Truth B2031A might cut it as near-field monitors, though I know that the Behringer also needs subwoofer assistance (as may the Yamaha), but will only cause frustration due to their SPL limitations in the intended application. For one, digital pianos and specifically synth sounds produce a huge amount of mid-range energy that sounds terrible when throttled at the speaker. Drums are naturally loud, needing no amplification in a tiny venue and you should look to give the other instruments the ability to keep up with its dynamics.
The type of speakers that I believe would begin to meet your requirements are the active 2-way 12" with horn tweeter types (most 2-ways will need a subwoofer). Of course, the sky's the limit, but desktop monitors should not be on the list.
Good luck with that. It will prove impractical, IMO.
The Yamaha HS8 or Behringer Truth B2031A might cut it as near-field monitors, though I know that the Behringer also needs subwoofer assistance (as may the Yamaha), but will only cause frustration due to their SPL limitations in the intended application. For one, digital pianos and specifically synth sounds produce a huge amount of mid-range energy that sounds terrible when throttled at the speaker. Drums are naturally loud, needing no amplification in a tiny venue and you should look to give the other instruments the ability to keep up with its dynamics.
The type of speakers that I believe would begin to meet your requirements are the active 2-way 12" with horn tweeter types (most 2-ways will need a subwoofer). Of course, the sky's the limit, but desktop monitors should not be on the list.
Good luck with that. It will prove impractical, IMO.
KRK have the best dynamics in the price range....the newest series is voiced flat with a slight bass tilt...perfect. The kevlar tweeter....I love it.
lol moms are the worst when it comes to fun hobbies and high energy play with dad and his kids
if this is the case id get a high sensitive fullrange PA, like a 12 or 15" two way monitor with horn. they can play low volume yet still be fun with its dynamic capabilities and low end with no need for loudness, and the lack of midrange may have positive result on the average dB, much easier on the mom and her plug
i would not waste any time on considering tiny near field harsh and fatiguing monitors that you want to turn up way to get any bass
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