Why does the new stuff not last???

Its' as if I'm living in an alternate universe! My families electronic gear is breaking down faster than I can fix it! First to go was my CD/VCR combo..fixed that OK PS solder cracks (Poor heat management). But now I have two LCD computer monitors down, and, I just heard of a relatives BIG flatscreen going sizzle, sizzle. It is almost as if....the newer it is, the less life it will have. Whats going on here? The first monitor (KDS 700P) May 1995 build. OK. The second monitor four years. The flatscreen two years. Are the builders relying on the public buying new rather than fixing? It would seem so.
So I jump into the first one & of course it has the SMPS PS...all that crap for just two voltages, 12VDC & 5VDC...gotta make it small.forget about reliability.....forget about "overbuilding". Just make it good enough to work & nothing else. We took it to a tech first & of course its obsolete & "parts are not available" was the refrain. So I got a shot at it....cleaned up all the chintzy solder jobs(Cold joints) still nothing.........& finding a diagram? Not in this universe.



____________________________________________________Rick.........
 

wwenze

Member
2008-03-07 12:46 pm
Oh yea I did have a big flatscreen that died after a year. Poor quality electrolytic next to a heatsink that overheated and died.

There's an economics theory, I forgot the exact, but if there is enough competition in the market and as long as consumers are satisfied, quality of product will start good at first and drop to the absolute minimum after some time.

And another rule - consumers are complete idiots - does not help the situation.
 

benb

Member
2010-04-24 1:52 am
I recall when the primary-side transistor or a rectifier diode was the most common failure of SMPS's, but now it's surely capacitors. See the thread earlier this year about the capacitor failures over the last decade that caused many computer problems, and some makers, especially Dell, chose to ignore the problem as long as possible. Try shotgunning the electrolytics.

But yeah, the SMPS actually saves all around - it's reasonably efficient (compared to an old linear-regulated supply) and smaller than the earlier supply type, and it's lighter than a mains-frequency transformer, saving weight in shipping the product, saving money there.
 
... The first monitor (KDS 700P) May 1995 build. OK. The second monitor four years. The flatscreen two years...
Spot the asymptote? These are just the outliers on the edge of the bell curve. It's accelerated built-in obsolescence ( driven by rising greed) at work.

Every year since 1975, the large corporates have reduced the design life of their products by one year. Everything is due to die in 2012.
 
RoHS will make it worse
but yes, the primary cause of failure is capacitors. My 32" CRT tv (yes i know, obsolete) is currently out of action (horizontal collapse)... the cause ? A dead 47uf 35V coupling capacitor in the horizontal drive stage. Undoubtedly most of the other electrolytics will be in poor condition also.

Still it has also worked to my advantage - my stepdaughters current 17" lcd monitor was a giveaway on Freecycle due to it being intermittent, the problem was simply dried up decoupling capacitors in the PSU. Very cheap fix :)
 
I feel a case of the "you old guys" coming on.

I paid $1500 NZ for a Macbook 100 in 1994. It has a 20mB hard drive and a black and white screen. I felt like the dog with the biggest nuts in town.

I just bought an Acer netbook the other day for $399 NZ. It has full colour graphics a 160gb HDD wireless networking, webcam, soundcard etc etc. And it weighs half as much as the Mac.

On a value for money equivalence they are not even in the same country let alone ballpark.

The Mac still went last time I powered it up (about 5 years ago), and I sold it to a collector of such stuff for $40. THe Acer doesn't have to last long to equal or better the Mac on a dollar per year of ownership basis.
 
I feel a case of the "you old guys" coming on.

I paid $1500 NZ for a Macbook 100 in 1994.

And that was in 1994 NZ dollars. With inflation that would be over $2000 today.

I remember when my late father bought our first (B&W) TV in 1954 - a DuMont console. He had a good job- officer in the Canadian military and I think he was making about $4500/year before taxes. So that TV probably represented several weeks of income. How many weeks of income does it take today to buy a 19" colour TV?

BTW, my father was a telecomm/electronics guy and a good thing, too. That TV needed new tubes and alignment on a regular basis. There was a special 'alignment tool' - a plastic knitting needle sharpened to fit the slot in the tuning slugs in the tuner- accessed under the 'Fine Tuning' knob. That knitting needle was kept in a convenient spot!
It did last, though. I recall it wasn't replaced until the mid-sixties at least- and during those years it had a new picture tube as well.

And don't get started on what it was like keeping a car running in the 'good old days'. Every Saturday, half the driveways in the neighbourhood had cars with the hoods up...plugs & points..adjusting the timing......drive through a puddle and the thing would stall.

John
 

benb

Member
2010-04-24 1:52 am
Some new electrolytics have a life of 2000 to 3000 hours.

Its so common people having trouble with amps with worn out electrolytics.
To be fair, that's the guaranteed lifetime at 105 degrees C, above the temperature of boiling water. They last much longer when operated closer to room temperatures.

Also, not sure, but I think many years ago you could only get electrolytics rated up to 85 degrees C.

Electrolytics CAN last a while, but the problem I alluded to in my earlier post, regarding the bad caps thread involving Dell and other computer makers, had a specific design defect, bad electrolyte that only lasted six months in high-stress uses such as computers. This was discovered as early as 1999, but apparently wasn't "fixed" until 2007.

With the high temperatures in vacuum tube equipment (such as the old 5-tube table radio), it's amazing the electrolytic capacitors lasted as long as they did.
 

Pano

Administrator
Paid Member
2004-10-07 6:05 am
Panama
I remember when my late father bought our first (B&W) TV in 1954 - a DuMont console.<snip> I recall it wasn't replaced until the mid-sixties at least- and during those years it had a new picture tube as well.
Only a 10 year life and a new tube during that. Not so great. We just tossed a Magnavox console from 1990. It still worked OK but was getting pretty dim. Color was going, too. A new picture tube might have done it, but why bother?

Will the LCD TVs of this Christmas still be going strong in 2020? Probably. 2030? Maybe.

And don't get started on what it was like keeping a car running in the 'good old days'.

So true! Read some old car mags, especially reviews in Consumers Reports to get a feel for that. It was standard to report on all the little fixes that needed to be done right off the showroom floor. Not to mention break-in. There was a lot of "fixing" that went into a new car back then.
 
This "old guy" is only 30!!

The problem with the capacitors in computers etc was down to the Chinese stealing the formula for an electrolyte from a big Japanese manufacturer - Nichicon I think. The problem was that they didn't steal the complete formula, they omitted the stabiliser part, which meant that the electrolyte would produce hydrogen... which popped the capacitors.

Notice now that all the good PC motherboards no longer use cheapo Chinese caps, and always use Rubycon, Nichicon, Nippon Chemicon etc. This is why.
 
it's called Programmed Obsolescence

B&D came up with that idea after they noticed that people renting a small appartment were buying drills to hang a poster....
It went all downwards from then....

I bought a 17' CRT monitor Sylvania, at Costco, 366 days later it broke down, got my money back and bought a new larger one, 31 days later this one broke down.....
Two of my family members bought an S10 (Chev) less than 10 months go by and both have them have a broken waterpump.......
Programmed obsolescence that is what it is called

J-P.
 
Its' as if I'm living in an alternate universe! My families electronic gear is breaking down faster than I can fix it! First to go was my CD/VCR combo..fixed that OK PS solder cracks (Poor heat management). But now I have two LCD computer monitors down, and, I just heard of a relatives BIG flatscreen going sizzle, sizzle. It is almost as if....the newer it is, the less life it will have. Whats going on here? The first monitor (KDS 700P) May 1995 build. OK. The second monitor four years. The flatscreen two years. Are the builders relying on the public buying new rather than fixing? It would seem so.
So I jump into the first one & of course it has the SMPS PS...all that crap for just two voltages, 12VDC & 5VDC...gotta make it small.forget about reliability.....forget about "overbuilding". Just make it good enough to work & nothing else. We took it to a tech first & of course its obsolete & "parts are not available" was the refrain. So I got a shot at it....cleaned up all the chintzy solder jobs(Cold joints) still nothing.........& finding a diagram? Not in this universe.


____________________________________________________Rick.........




Well, NOT all is (junk) to give an example is Bryston, They will give you a 20 years warranty in parts and labor, They are made to last!!!!. I understand your frustration. now you get so cheap staff these days. I used to fix electronics items that lasted over 10 years without service, that staff was way better build than the things that you find in stores today. now you can find a DVD player for $30 New. Do you expect quality or reliability for that price?. Bussines...Bussines...Bussines:(
 
Well I guess all this cheap electronics has brought about one thing...info on the Internet. On the PS board there are four overheating spots on the PCB. Four AO4606 "Complimentary Enhancement Mode FETs" CEMFET ???? These devices are obsolete, but still available........there are scores of sites devoted to blogs about this monitor & what to look for...
The board is chocked full of Samxon brand caps...not noted for long life.Now to scrape up the parts & start soldering......

________________________________________________________Rick........
 
B&D came up with that idea after they noticed that people renting a small appartment were buying drills to hang a poster....
It went all downwards from then....

I bought a 17' CRT monitor Sylvania, at Costco, 366 days later it broke down, got my money back and bought a new larger one, 31 days later this one broke down.....
Two of my family members bought an S10 (Chev) less than 10 months go by and both have them have a broken waterpump.......
Programmed obsolescence that is what it is called

J-P.

you are getting what you pay for. The concept of programmed obsolescence is not valid in any of the cases you name. You have bought on price and you have received the design quality that that price implies.