Hello, I am looking for drop in replacments for a circuit that is calling for
Burr Brown OPA2134PA, I have searched the forum and read about 60 pages worth of different opinions on various OPA's. What I am trying to figure out is which one should I use and which would supply the best sound within the parameters of the one listed? or if I should use two singles on a adapter? -some said some singles provide better sound then a dual of the same make. Can you guys give me some numbers and impressions of the sonic qualities of the amps? I am writing this thread AFTER my research so I hope I am not asking something that has been asked 100 times before. This is for a PC soundcard that has sockets for DIY OPA's replacment. thanks for any helps you can give me. I have ben doing alot of reading and research and came up with alot of different models-actually too many. ALso can you give me the absolute best (in your opinion) price is not a concern if it can give me great sound.
Burr Brown OPA2134PA, I have searched the forum and read about 60 pages worth of different opinions on various OPA's. What I am trying to figure out is which one should I use and which would supply the best sound within the parameters of the one listed? or if I should use two singles on a adapter? -some said some singles provide better sound then a dual of the same make. Can you guys give me some numbers and impressions of the sonic qualities of the amps? I am writing this thread AFTER my research so I hope I am not asking something that has been asked 100 times before. This is for a PC soundcard that has sockets for DIY OPA's replacment. thanks for any helps you can give me. I have ben doing alot of reading and research and came up with alot of different models-actually too many. ALso can you give me the absolute best (in your opinion) price is not a concern if it can give me great sound.
Nobody can give me a recommendation or some info? 70 people read through but can't help with a suggestion?
OPA2134
is a very good op-amp
to replace it with anything
that would make any noticeable difference in sound is not easy
if it is even possible, at all
at least you would have to go up to very expensive op-amps
to maybe get a slight change in some measurable parameter
one very highly priced and/or praised is OPA627
it is an audiophile jetset op-amp
if you search this forum and internet
you will find plenty of stuff and circuits where OPA627 is used
here is product page, with links to download datasheet
http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/opa627.html
Not many would bother to update to anything from OPA2134
this is probably why you do not get many suggestions here
Regards
lineup 😉 into more lowpriced op-amps with good enough data for audio
is a very good op-amp
to replace it with anything
that would make any noticeable difference in sound is not easy
if it is even possible, at all
at least you would have to go up to very expensive op-amps
to maybe get a slight change in some measurable parameter
one very highly priced and/or praised is OPA627
it is an audiophile jetset op-amp
if you search this forum and internet
you will find plenty of stuff and circuits where OPA627 is used
here is product page, with links to download datasheet
http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/opa627.html
Not many would bother to update to anything from OPA2134
this is probably why you do not get many suggestions here
Regards
lineup 😉 into more lowpriced op-amps with good enough data for audio
I considered those 627' then I seen they are single amps, SO I need adapter boards..considering I need 4 dual amps...I would be looking at quite alot of money. I did consider it though. SO your saying that basically Those reccomended amps are good and getting ones to sound better would require buying something very high end that would be quite expensive? A friend said to get 825's but the are surface mount so I need adapters again and they are extremly expensive.. Anybody have any other info? Thx for answering BTW...
BTW what about the AD825's? I know they are singles aswell but I was told they are great amps if used with a single to dual adapter board any info comments about those amps?
Re: Replacement for OPA2134PA?
The TI OPA2134PA is a high performance dual op-amp, why do you want to replace it?
* Texas Instruments bought Burr-Brown years ago, but still use the name.
What quality / specification is lacking with this op-amp in your application?
http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/opa2134.html
* ULTRA LOW DISTORTION: 0.00008%
* LOW NOISE: 8nV/sqrt(Hz)
* SLEW RATE: 20V/µs
* BANDWIDTH: 8MHz
Frankly I don't see any reason to replace this chip.
Just because the op-amp is socketed does mean it is meant to be replaced. That normally has to do with the soundcard's production.
I think it is a strange fanasty idea that you can find a better op-amp through wild guessing than the soundcard's designer, who presumable has an electronic engineering degree, and compared several op-amps for the best performance within a given price range, and then optimized the design around that choice.
The TI manufactored OPA2134PA is available from Digi-key, Mouser, Jameco, and just about any major mail-order electronic component supplier.
The TI OPA2134PA is a high performance dual op-amp, why do you want to replace it?
* Texas Instruments bought Burr-Brown years ago, but still use the name.
What quality / specification is lacking with this op-amp in your application?
http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/opa2134.html
* ULTRA LOW DISTORTION: 0.00008%
* LOW NOISE: 8nV/sqrt(Hz)
* SLEW RATE: 20V/µs
* BANDWIDTH: 8MHz
Frankly I don't see any reason to replace this chip.
Just because the op-amp is socketed does mean it is meant to be replaced. That normally has to do with the soundcard's production.
I think it is a strange fanasty idea that you can find a better op-amp through wild guessing than the soundcard's designer, who presumable has an electronic engineering degree, and compared several op-amps for the best performance within a given price range, and then optimized the design around that choice.
The TI manufactored OPA2134PA is available from Digi-key, Mouser, Jameco, and just about any major mail-order electronic component supplier.
OK, Maybe I should explain a bit better. The card has sockets because the card is designed to have the opamps replaced. It does NOT come with the 2134PA's they are recommended by the manufacturer. Talking to people and reading spec sheets and comparing with the recommended OPA's is hardly what I would call wild guessing. Trying to find a better or higher quality amp is wrong? or impossible? why? I read so much info about people replacing OPA's becasue they are looking for better sound. I am asking questions and doing comparisons because I want to learn and I like to hear peoples opinions. SO I guess the general opinion is just to use the 2134's becasue they are good enough? I didn't want anything ultra expensive but it seems these are more than adaquate for the job. I get alot of different opinions though. Thank you.
Consider the LM4562 from National Semi. It's a very new chip, with great specs. In many case choosing an opamp is like choosing the brand of input capacitor. 😉
To my thinking it is guessing in the sense that you are making changes on typically subjective information, rather than trying to find a quality that is lacking and objectively through measurement and objective testing (ABX testing) evaluating whether you can find a performance increase or create a flaw.
I didn't mean to criticize you personally, I think the general tend of blindly swapping op-amps without knowing or understanding the design criteria used by the original designer when he/she made his/her original selection is silly.
Op-amps are not the same as ideal op-amps, so there are trade-offs and differences in the various devices, without understanding these trade-offs you are hoping that a change that you really don’t understand the technical specifics behind will perhaps create an improvement. This is the part of the "op-amp swapping practice" I find a waste of time and an expensive guessing game.
Given that the card designer did recommend the OPA2134A dual op-amp, I don't see any compelling reason to assume that you can find a better op-amp than the card designer, unless there has been considerable improvement in the models available since the card was designed (i.e. if the card was designed in the 60s or 70s or even early 80s). Given that the only op-amp I would say is significantly increasing of late is the LM4562 just released from National, unless you know of a particular flaw that you want to correct I don't think hoping to find an improvement behind the original designer's recommendations is very likely.
I also think swapping op-amps and hoping for an improvement is not the best way to use your time to learn more about audio electronics. That's just my opinion.
Hmm...Can electrons read? 🙂
Or do of the same type (electrolytic, ceramic, poly, ...) capacitors with the values and similar specs act the same?
I understand what you mean it's just when I was reviewing and asking about the OPA the company suggested, alot of people said..NO don't use that use this..or that etc. So I started asking questions and reading spec sheets. I figured the company did settle on those Amps becasue price/performacne ratio...so I figured if I invested a little more money perhaps I would get better amps that would be quieter or provide better overall sound like the LM4562. To me this has alot better specs then the suggested unit. If I installed these instead chances are quality would improve or perhaps not? I am reading and studying alot of different topics regarding audio electronics.. I find it interesting. I just didn't understand why putting in a better AMP wouldn't produce better sound. Thx for the information. So your opinion overall is just to stick with the 2134's or possibly try out the LM4562's? I just find ths subject interesting that so many people have so many varying opinions on what should use or if I should change anything at all...
Well for instance if you put an opamp that is too fast in a circuit that was designed for a slower one, it might make bursts of spurious oscillations at a few hundreds of MHz which are hard to notice on the scope but sound bad. If you put a BJT input opamp in a circuit that was designed for a JFET input opamp, you'll get more offset, and possibly more noise. etc...
OPA2132, I believe OPA2134 is called audio grade, which means its basicaly not as good as an opamp you'd want in say very accurate bench equipment...which means less DC offset at the end of the day.
Only in a badly bypassed/layed out cmoy have I ever been able to tell a difirence in their sounds though... you may also try NE5532, for a slightly diffirent sound...it should be dirt cheap...
Only in a badly bypassed/layed out cmoy have I ever been able to tell a difirence in their sounds though... you may also try NE5532, for a slightly diffirent sound...it should be dirt cheap...
Why would you consider anything other than what the mfg recommends. In other words, what's wrong with the OPA2134PA?
Nordic:
Audio grade means it is not designed to opate at the high frequencies found in test equipment and digital electronics (i.e. multi-GHz home computers, digital TV), Audio electronics is concerned with input/out signals in the sub 20kHz range.
Swapping a FET op-amp (i.e. OPA2134) with a BJT op-amp (i.e. NE5332) is not likely to improve the amplifier because they require different offsets, have different input impedence, etc.
ROBSCIX:
You could try swapping them, but since I think the LM4562 is still not available in quanity (not sure) you might have trouble finding one. I doubt you will be able to honestly hear a difference, I think you are more likely to imagine a difference.
I think you would be better off following Bob Pease' Merit Badge expirement ideas or building simple amplifiers from discrete (e.g. transistor) components.
http://www.national.com/rap/meritbadge.html
http://www.electronics-tutorials.com/amplifiers/amplifiers.htm
sawreyrw: I don't know, personally I suspect there are no audible flaws when using the OPA2134 in a correctly designed circuit.
Audio grade means it is not designed to opate at the high frequencies found in test equipment and digital electronics (i.e. multi-GHz home computers, digital TV), Audio electronics is concerned with input/out signals in the sub 20kHz range.
Swapping a FET op-amp (i.e. OPA2134) with a BJT op-amp (i.e. NE5332) is not likely to improve the amplifier because they require different offsets, have different input impedence, etc.
ROBSCIX:
You could try swapping them, but since I think the LM4562 is still not available in quanity (not sure) you might have trouble finding one. I doubt you will be able to honestly hear a difference, I think you are more likely to imagine a difference.
I think you would be better off following Bob Pease' Merit Badge expirement ideas or building simple amplifiers from discrete (e.g. transistor) components.
http://www.national.com/rap/meritbadge.html
http://www.electronics-tutorials.com/amplifiers/amplifiers.htm
sawreyrw: I don't know, personally I suspect there are no audible flaws when using the OPA2134 in a correctly designed circuit.
I've been using a LOT of OPA2134's of late and I really like them. I have 10 OPA637's lying in my drawer that I'm not using. Why, you may ask! Well, two reasons:
1. OPA637/627 cannot be used with gain under 5, otherwise it becomes unstable and starts to oscillate. This means I can't use them as unity gain buffers in pre-amps. The only place I would recommend them is in DAC I/V stages where you MIGHT perceive some benefit. Possibly phono stages, although I've never tried.
2. I do not have 'golden ears' and REALLY couldn't perceive an audible difference in sound between the two. You might have golden ears, so you might benefit 😀
Because of the first reason, it means that the OPA637's use is fairly limited, in my humble opinion. Also, I think I paid almost 10 times as much for the OPA637's, so you decide.
1. OPA637/627 cannot be used with gain under 5, otherwise it becomes unstable and starts to oscillate. This means I can't use them as unity gain buffers in pre-amps. The only place I would recommend them is in DAC I/V stages where you MIGHT perceive some benefit. Possibly phono stages, although I've never tried.
2. I do not have 'golden ears' and REALLY couldn't perceive an audible difference in sound between the two. You might have golden ears, so you might benefit 😀
Because of the first reason, it means that the OPA637's use is fairly limited, in my humble opinion. Also, I think I paid almost 10 times as much for the OPA637's, so you decide.
That's what I was wondering if it was possible to improve the sound quality of the circuit by replacing the OPA with something of higher quality. I wasn't sure about that, then I hear change this change that...You guys say Iprobably wouldn't be able to hear a difference and if they are indeed that subtle then the idea is a waste of time and possibly money to buy some of the more expensive components..thx for the help guys..
Ah, I actually thought they were more similar than that. I was referring to my experience with the OPA637 then 😀
At the risk of being flamed, these fancy shmancy opamps are for instrumentation use. They do measure better than the audio grade ones, but I couldn't hear the difference. So, IMHO they are really overkill in audio use, especially at 10 times the price...
At the risk of being flamed, these fancy shmancy opamps are for instrumentation use. They do measure better than the audio grade ones, but I couldn't hear the difference. So, IMHO they are really overkill in audio use, especially at 10 times the price...
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