OK I will admit that this is just a bit of a venting session, but I do wonder how many people have similar issues.
Recently I have been building a couple of amps, speakers, an active crossover etc.
Understandably I have build these into separate enclosures necessitating 4mm binding posts for speaker connections, and RCA / phono sockets together with associated plugs for cables.
Almost every one I have bought recently has been very wide of spec.
I bought some 4mm binding posts and 4mm banana plugs from the same supplier on the same order. The plugs just fall out of the sockets. Literally! Unpack - put plug in socket - turn over - it falls out. Ridiculous!
For the speakers because they are 18mm / 3/4" MDF boxes and so don't need any chassis insulation I just gave up, went to my lathe and made my own out of brass. I just drilled the 4mm sockets with a 4mm drill. I half expected this to be inadequate but I don't have a 3.7mm drill and 4mm reamer to hand. The sockets fit these holes just fine, and better with a little 'manual intervention' on the bananas to expand them!
OK I will admit I didn't spend a huge amount on the 4mm speaker connectors but they did come from reputable electronic supply houses - NOT ebay.
Is it really asking too much for 4mm sockets to be, well, 4mm?
As for the not-inexpensive gold plated RCA/Phono connectors. Much the same story!
Things used to be better than this! I have some 35 year old interconnects - I made them myself when I was a student. They are graphite screened LC-OFC (linear crystal-oxygen free copper) cable with fully screened, turned (not pressed) gold connectors. I was a student - they were the best I could afford, but no way near top of the line. They grip my old kit's sockets just fine.
New sockets have these old plugs fall off. Old sockets have new plugs fall off. As you can see new plugs and new sockets don't have a hope in heck! Every dimension that should ideally trend to bottom-limit is actually top-limit (or more) and vice-verca! I have to resort to overheating the plug centre pin when soldering and getting it to cool and reset at about a 10-15 degree angle if I want anything like a mechanically and electrically reliable connection. Crimping the outer screen of the RCA plug is a good idea too, but beware overdoing it with machined connectors as they REALLY don't like being opened up again (snap!).
Rant over!
Is my experience unusually negative?
Recently I have been building a couple of amps, speakers, an active crossover etc.
Understandably I have build these into separate enclosures necessitating 4mm binding posts for speaker connections, and RCA / phono sockets together with associated plugs for cables.
Almost every one I have bought recently has been very wide of spec.
I bought some 4mm binding posts and 4mm banana plugs from the same supplier on the same order. The plugs just fall out of the sockets. Literally! Unpack - put plug in socket - turn over - it falls out. Ridiculous!
For the speakers because they are 18mm / 3/4" MDF boxes and so don't need any chassis insulation I just gave up, went to my lathe and made my own out of brass. I just drilled the 4mm sockets with a 4mm drill. I half expected this to be inadequate but I don't have a 3.7mm drill and 4mm reamer to hand. The sockets fit these holes just fine, and better with a little 'manual intervention' on the bananas to expand them!
OK I will admit I didn't spend a huge amount on the 4mm speaker connectors but they did come from reputable electronic supply houses - NOT ebay.
Is it really asking too much for 4mm sockets to be, well, 4mm?
As for the not-inexpensive gold plated RCA/Phono connectors. Much the same story!
Things used to be better than this! I have some 35 year old interconnects - I made them myself when I was a student. They are graphite screened LC-OFC (linear crystal-oxygen free copper) cable with fully screened, turned (not pressed) gold connectors. I was a student - they were the best I could afford, but no way near top of the line. They grip my old kit's sockets just fine.
New sockets have these old plugs fall off. Old sockets have new plugs fall off. As you can see new plugs and new sockets don't have a hope in heck! Every dimension that should ideally trend to bottom-limit is actually top-limit (or more) and vice-verca! I have to resort to overheating the plug centre pin when soldering and getting it to cool and reset at about a 10-15 degree angle if I want anything like a mechanically and electrically reliable connection. Crimping the outer screen of the RCA plug is a good idea too, but beware overdoing it with machined connectors as they REALLY don't like being opened up again (snap!).
Rant over!
Is my experience unusually negative?
Sad to say - I experienced much the same lately.
Even though everything can be made in extreme tight tolerances today - a lot of stuff is not - because - savings I guess.
As an example - I've been through a ton of repairs on cars, where I have still to find any logic in price to performance and fit anymore. It has been anything from a matter of wrong length, fit, brand and simply quality of build.
It seems there is some kind of second order/ second sort, when items are produced. So when you get them from one place, and pay one price. You might be lucky to get a more "premium" - or less - part of the exact same brand and make, of a given item.
My issue with modern marketing is, that there seem to be no proper guideline between price and quality anymore. The pride in a given brand or make, seem to be lost a bit in competition and in the hunt for profit. And profit is definitely needed to make anything - I accept that - but how can any consumer maneuver this jungle?
Even though everything can be made in extreme tight tolerances today - a lot of stuff is not - because - savings I guess.
As an example - I've been through a ton of repairs on cars, where I have still to find any logic in price to performance and fit anymore. It has been anything from a matter of wrong length, fit, brand and simply quality of build.
It seems there is some kind of second order/ second sort, when items are produced. So when you get them from one place, and pay one price. You might be lucky to get a more "premium" - or less - part of the exact same brand and make, of a given item.
My issue with modern marketing is, that there seem to be no proper guideline between price and quality anymore. The pride in a given brand or make, seem to be lost a bit in competition and in the hunt for profit. And profit is definitely needed to make anything - I accept that - but how can any consumer maneuver this jungle?
I wonder if they allow for gold plating, but allow too much? A mate had a Cirrus amp that was down one channel, a repair shop diagnosed a broken circuit board, so he bought it into to me - it was an RCA socket that was worn, so I used a tiny slitting saw in a "Dremmel" type tool to cut two slots (to make an X) in the center contact of some old interconnects, then spread out the centre so it would make a good contact - we had Cirrus powered speakers at work for a few years.
I've bought cheap 4mm sockets and plugs from Amazon, with only one order of sockets being a bit short. I've never had a problem with RCAs either, even with the cheap kenable stuff.
I've bought cheap 4mm sockets and plugs from Amazon, with only one order of sockets being a bit short. I've never had a problem with RCAs either, even with the cheap kenable stuff.
Your experience is all too common in this "modern" age. I also have some banana plugs that are way too loose, it's a hassle to have to take the time to replace them and hope that it doesn't happen again. I've also seen them way to tight where it is difficult to plug and unplug.
I'm not sure how to solve this problem, maybe buying legitimate brands such as Pomona from a legitimate electronics vendor? I wonder if any brands still have their "old school" levels of quality? Maybe paying for a premium brand such as WBT would be worth it? I don't know the answer...
I'm not sure how to solve this problem, maybe buying legitimate brands such as Pomona from a legitimate electronics vendor? I wonder if any brands still have their "old school" levels of quality? Maybe paying for a premium brand such as WBT would be worth it? I don't know the answer...
I've had an issue with cheap panel mount female RCA connectors that are too small / loose.
Also with cheap tools. I got a no-name set of screw driver bits as a gift years ago, only to find out the hard way that some of the hex bits were slightly under-sized, which makes them perfect for destroying hex socket head cap screws.
For example, it has a hex bit marked as 1/8" that actually measures as 0.115" which is about 0.008' too small compared to quality tools.
Coincidentally, this under-sized 1/8" bit measures exactly the same size as the 3mm bit, so I suspect they cheat by making one bit to be marked as either one, assuming for the 1/8" bit, it's "close enough".
Or maybe there's simply no QC procedures in place to prevent mix ups, who knows.
Just got to check everything these days.
Also with cheap tools. I got a no-name set of screw driver bits as a gift years ago, only to find out the hard way that some of the hex bits were slightly under-sized, which makes them perfect for destroying hex socket head cap screws.
For example, it has a hex bit marked as 1/8" that actually measures as 0.115" which is about 0.008' too small compared to quality tools.
Coincidentally, this under-sized 1/8" bit measures exactly the same size as the 3mm bit, so I suspect they cheat by making one bit to be marked as either one, assuming for the 1/8" bit, it's "close enough".
Or maybe there's simply no QC procedures in place to prevent mix ups, who knows.
Just got to check everything these days.
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It is fairly gloomy. IMO with a lot of generic parts and products, the wider buying population mostly focus on ever lower prices, and often are not very knowledgeable or discerning. One result is cheaply produced rubbish, which people may rate poorly but still resist paying for higher quality. In some cases higher quality has become very hard to find and more expensive than it would have been, simply due to the limited market for it.
For this type of application though, I'm starting to look more towards pro products (of known quality, like speakon, not unbranded copies). At least parts of the professional market still need to be sufficiently discerning and pay what is necessary in order to avoid costly failures.
For this type of application though, I'm starting to look more towards pro products (of known quality, like speakon, not unbranded copies). At least parts of the professional market still need to be sufficiently discerning and pay what is necessary in order to avoid costly failures.
The phono plugs and sockets are gold plated. Even a heavy plating layer in this context is measured in ten-thousandths (0.0001) of an inch / thousandths of a mm (0.001) so I don't think that is the explanation.
So I am not the only one cheesed off with the state of modern manufacturing.
I don't know if that makes me feel any better but at least I am not alone - misery loves company and all that!
Now we know why I prefer Neutrik speakON for speaker connections. The banana plug is a garbage connector even on a good day.
Still... One would expect it to at least plug in and stay put. Maybe Netlist is onto something. There is a smaller diameter version of the banana plug out there. It's significantly smaller, though, so it should be pretty obvious if you get two different types.
Tom
Still... One would expect it to at least plug in and stay put. Maybe Netlist is onto something. There is a smaller diameter version of the banana plug out there. It's significantly smaller, though, so it should be pretty obvious if you get two different types.
Tom
I recall old SME RCA plugs with smaller diameter tips also being longer than normal ones.
I still have a phono cable with these 'strangers'.
Hugo
I still have a phono cable with these 'strangers'.
Hugo
What is it made out of? I like the 4mm solid stock with a single slot and 1 or two leaf springs underneath the piece
for the slot. Red copper or red copper that is silver plated. The piece for the slot can be sterling silver. I pay 10-20.00 usd
for 2 or 4 pieces. I have to look. I ALWAYS use contact enhancers for push pull connections too. I don't get sloppy with
the application and I alway clean (the male), clean (the female) and clean after they are inserted. 2000 graphite dust and a double tap 180 degrees apart. Plug in and wipe off. If it's marine it gets a silicone seal in the form of @ Flex Seal aerosol.
50 year I plugged in electrical butt connectors, dins, ribbons, etc as a HD mechanic. 35 of those years were digital in the
anchor drilling world of water, mud, slurry, drilling mud, grout, and .5vdc to 480vac. LOOSE don't work.
Core drilling can be used to hollow out an existing column within .125 over a 40 meter bore through reinforce concrete
and 1" rebar. The outside of the existing column was all that was left. One at a time on the Oakland San Rafael bridge.
The reason they could pull it off was the absolutes location of that drill bit. That location was guaranteed by an unbroken
data stream to the operator in real time. It only happens in a very strict world believe me. LOOSE don't work unless you
know old what's er name. Then loose is ok. Loose has it's place just not in electrical connections. 😎
for the slot. Red copper or red copper that is silver plated. The piece for the slot can be sterling silver. I pay 10-20.00 usd
for 2 or 4 pieces. I have to look. I ALWAYS use contact enhancers for push pull connections too. I don't get sloppy with
the application and I alway clean (the male), clean (the female) and clean after they are inserted. 2000 graphite dust and a double tap 180 degrees apart. Plug in and wipe off. If it's marine it gets a silicone seal in the form of @ Flex Seal aerosol.
50 year I plugged in electrical butt connectors, dins, ribbons, etc as a HD mechanic. 35 of those years were digital in the
anchor drilling world of water, mud, slurry, drilling mud, grout, and .5vdc to 480vac. LOOSE don't work.
Core drilling can be used to hollow out an existing column within .125 over a 40 meter bore through reinforce concrete
and 1" rebar. The outside of the existing column was all that was left. One at a time on the Oakland San Rafael bridge.
The reason they could pull it off was the absolutes location of that drill bit. That location was guaranteed by an unbroken
data stream to the operator in real time. It only happens in a very strict world believe me. LOOSE don't work unless you
know old what's er name. Then loose is ok. Loose has it's place just not in electrical connections. 😎