I'm trying to find some information on some newly aquired Westrex speakers. These are not the usual Acoustilens system but could be a development of it.
They use 2080E bass drivers and 2390A mid / highs. The crosover uses big air cored inductors and is located between the drivers
The 2080W has a brass mass ring around the circumference of the dust cap and the 2390A is a reversed 2090 with no back effectively using the diaphragm as a 4" dome transducer.
The cabinets have non parallel sides and the porting is similar to that found in B&W DM2's
They sound incredible, deep solid and natural sounding bass. The mids and highs are fast and detailed with a wonderfully natural tone.
They use 2080E bass drivers and 2390A mid / highs. The crosover uses big air cored inductors and is located between the drivers
The 2080W has a brass mass ring around the circumference of the dust cap and the 2390A is a reversed 2090 with no back effectively using the diaphragm as a 4" dome transducer.
The cabinets have non parallel sides and the porting is similar to that found in B&W DM2's
They sound incredible, deep solid and natural sounding bass. The mids and highs are fast and detailed with a wonderfully natural tone.
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Information from a Hi Fi Year Book dated,1959 describes the 15'' 20/80 as having a 3'' voice coil of edge wound copper ribbon working in a magnet of 1.32 T.16 Ohm with a power handling capacity of 30 W. The other unit in your picture appears to be a cannibalised version of the same makers H.F. Unit,with the rectangular horn removed and the acousticlens that was fitted to the horn,placed in front of the diaphragm in a reverse position.
Yes you're correct it is a reversed 2090 driver but is an OEM convesion by Westrex.
I have all the yearbooks from the 50's through to the 70's and lots of period magazines but I can find no reference to either these speakers or the 2390A driver.
An old friend who was in the hifi trade in the early sixties thinks they were a development of the Acoustilens into a better domestic product, but Westrex then pulled out of the market before they were on general sale. I don't know if this is true but is certainly plausable.
There is anecdotal evidence this pair were once owned by GEC.
I have all the yearbooks from the 50's through to the 70's and lots of period magazines but I can find no reference to either these speakers or the 2390A driver.
An old friend who was in the hifi trade in the early sixties thinks they were a development of the Acoustilens into a better domestic product, but Westrex then pulled out of the market before they were on general sale. I don't know if this is true but is certainly plausable.
There is anecdotal evidence this pair were once owned by GEC.
Only someone connected with the Westrex Co.Ltd. will have an explanation concerning this 'special'.The brass ring fitted to add mass, is an indication that an attempt has been made to operate the 15'' in a smaller enclosure and since the sensitivity will drop as a result the surgery on the H.F. is a further effort in size reduction.I can well believe that what you have is a lab. special and a connection to General Electric,quite possible,as they had an anechoic chamber available.Any thoughts of converting it back to the original driver configuration as you have most of the parts?
I think changing the 2390A back to a 2090A with horn would be a retrograde step. Many years ago I was fortunate to hear a pair of original Acoustilens speakers and although my recollections may be a litle faded, I think these are a more acomplished speaker, certainly in a domestic enviroment. They have all the fabulous attributes of the Acoustilens but have an extended frequency range both top and bottom and the stereo imaging in both depth and width is the best I've heard. Comparing them to my JBL Array 1400's and BTH K10A's, I think the Westrex is the better speaker.
Sensitivity it not an issue. A few watts drives them very loud indeed.
I'll definitely need to do some more reasearch.
Sensitivity it not an issue. A few watts drives them very loud indeed.
I'll definitely need to do some more reasearch.
AndyEMT
I have those drivers working
even measured TS for the 2080E unit
Theese cabinets You are talking about, are probably from Litton Westrex?
I have those drivers working
even measured TS for the 2080E unit
Theese cabinets You are talking about, are probably from Litton Westrex?
Hi Zoran
I think they pre date Litton Westrex as they are circa 1961/2 and the frivers have the black and silver foilcals rather than the later blue and siver Litton used.
The cabinets with drivers weigh about 55Kg each and I think were developed with assistance from GEC.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Andy
The very same cabs I had but I took out the drivers and put them into
different solution. I had 4 cabs with 4 pairs of LH and HF drivers
little different ending marks
Westrex 2080E (brass ring, 5 holes on cap)
Westrex 2930A HF unit
I put them like lower and upper in OB U-frame
HF also
I removed the chamber and release the compression effect
now I am playing in dipole mode
with
Karlson horn at one side and lenses on the other side
.
I exchange original metal black lenses with custom made
wooden pieces...
.
the central unit is RCA LC1A (HF unit disconnected)
.
Beyond the 36db/oct for HFs they still little stronger then others
and I have to design a step-down transformer to move down the level and in the same time forms a 18db cross with a C elements on prim and sec...
.
Also I have to finish and make it correct the 24db/oct crossover for the low end. I put the some improvisation just to have a touch with.
But that should be more correct.
.
cheers
different solution. I had 4 cabs with 4 pairs of LH and HF drivers
little different ending marks
Westrex 2080E (brass ring, 5 holes on cap)
Westrex 2930A HF unit
I put them like lower and upper in OB U-frame
HF also
I removed the chamber and release the compression effect
now I am playing in dipole mode
with
Karlson horn at one side and lenses on the other side
.
I exchange original metal black lenses with custom made
wooden pieces...
.
the central unit is RCA LC1A (HF unit disconnected)
.
Beyond the 36db/oct for HFs they still little stronger then others
and I have to design a step-down transformer to move down the level and in the same time forms a 18db cross with a C elements on prim and sec...
.
Also I have to finish and make it correct the 24db/oct crossover for the low end. I put the some improvisation just to have a touch with.
But that should be more correct.
.
cheers
the WE2080E is the predecessor of the altec 515 model
it could be concluded by quick look on the elements structure
2080E is more rough and harshly accomplished
then 515 which is more elegant and softly finished
2080E are cca. 18Kg per piece
and completely removable modular parts of moving elements
Which is good.
the WE2930A are also modular and easy to open and close back.
it could be concluded by quick look on the elements structure
2080E is more rough and harshly accomplished
then 515 which is more elegant and softly finished
2080E are cca. 18Kg per piece
and completely removable modular parts of moving elements
Which is good.
the WE2930A are also modular and easy to open and close back.
Not to forget to inspect the crossover in this cabs.
I found WE elements of about 5mH and 8uF
12db/oct JUST THE same for booth units.
BUT that is mistake and that means, because of the app same Z of the units,
that they start to cut on the same F. If that so, then they are forming a peek on F
with some bandwidth.
This is not propper and starting F's should be little remote from meeting F
Exact value shpuld be calculated based on -point of meeting, Z, order and type of crossover for each unit.
Sorry for long post
cheers
I found WE elements of about 5mH and 8uF
12db/oct JUST THE same for booth units.
BUT that is mistake and that means, because of the app same Z of the units,
that they start to cut on the same F. If that so, then they are forming a peek on F
with some bandwidth.
This is not propper and starting F's should be little remote from meeting F
Exact value shpuld be calculated based on -point of meeting, Z, order and type of crossover for each unit.
Sorry for long post
cheers
Hi Zoran
What did you use for a phase plug when you used the 2390's as compression drivers?
Regards A
What did you use for a phase plug when you used the 2390's as compression drivers?
Regards A
I didnt use anu plug or so.
Iremoved original triangular cuved plate that covering membrane surface
.
I made a new lenses from wood and hyperbolic shape
Iremoved original triangular cuved plate that covering membrane surface
.
I made a new lenses from wood and hyperbolic shape
there is some topic on local site if You dont mind the language 🙂
Westrex 2080E zvucnici u novim kutijicama - Zvucnici - diyAudio.rs
merenja nekih horni i drivera - Zvucnici - diyAudio.rs
.
i have some more pics but cant find them now...
Westrex 2080E zvucnici u novim kutijicama - Zvucnici - diyAudio.rs
merenja nekih horni i drivera - Zvucnici - diyAudio.rs
.
i have some more pics but cant find them now...
Hi Zoran
The triangular plate over the diaphragm with the layers of polythene "leaves" serves an important function in that it privides some back pressure to prevent damage to the diaphragm.
The 2390 driver was built without a phase plug and the throat is stuffed with foam. Using it as a dipole will mean that output from the throat will not be phase corrected although foam will probably dampen the output sufficiently as not to be too noticable.
Below is some information I received from an ex Westrex field engineer regarging the 2626A speakers
"Westrex Book Radiator
I was a field engineer at Westrex, my patch was NW London. I left to set up my own company and Westrex were my main Distributor, so I was often in and out of the Works at Coles Green Road. The following paragraph is not for the squeemish.
Most UK cinemas using Westrex sound and projection equipment were on a lease plus service contract, the gear was owned by Westrex. During late 60's cinemas were fast being converted to multiples, bingo halls or bowling etc, so masses of equipment was being removed. Having no storage space they put large skips behind the works. These were daily filled with 2040 40 watt tube amps (best ever), 2080 bass drivers and 2090 drivers and horns, and sold as scrap. Bass bins were broken up on site. Crying is allowed.
One day when visiting I saw lying by the skip a 2090C driver complete with Book Radiator. I grabbed it and remarked to the warehouse manager (Mr Bill Diamond) 'pity there is not a pair'. 'Wait',we are having a clear-out' he said and went inside and returned with another, which was obviously a prototype, having a rough looking makeshift bracket for mounting but otherwise identical.
I beleive these speakers as shown here were intended to superceed the original Acoustilens model, I cannot be certain but few if any were sold, in which case they are extremely rare. The only ones I knew of were owned by a very few of my fellow engineers. The guys that had them were the cream of the West End sound men, like Gorden Isaacs and Billy Bell. I heard them on a system consisting of a pair of 2040's, a Decca FFSS cartridge and tone arm. I never heard before or since such gorgeous quality from vinyl. But I must say the best systems I ever heard were the circa 1954 4 track mag Cinemascope movies with 3 Westrex bins with cellular horns. Its all gone backwards since. It is no surprise to me that efficient speakers sound far better, its the tight control by the huge magnets and small accurate gap, and stiff ouput of the transfomer coupling, damps overshoot and flapping around.
Back to the Book Radiator; I do still own the original prototype. At one time I pondered copying the perforated sheild and the Book 'pages' and offering them as conversion kit for 2090A. Too old to bother now. I am not familiar with the type number 2390, my memory is fading but as I recall the original horn driver was 2090A (24 ohms) and 2090C (15 ohms and no phase plug) but I could be wrong.
As you may know, if you put LF power to an unmounted bass driver, no loading to control it, it will likely bust the spider and surround. An HF pressure driver with no horn will do the same, fly to bits. Thats why they are tightly bolted up with a gasket. Failure of these drivers is often result of blown seal. If HF diaphragm was left bare with no horn load it would only be able to work at low level without damage. The name Book Radiator is the clue; you cannot slam shut a book however hard you push, you are working to push out the air. Thats what the leaves are for, to load the thing so it has some work to do. The perfotated shield holds the leaves in place and restricts overshoot.
This may be likely reason crossover frequency of these units was raised to 1000hz (Acoustilens was 675 i think, cinema horns were 500).
The triangular plate over the diaphragm with the layers of polythene "leaves" serves an important function in that it privides some back pressure to prevent damage to the diaphragm.
The 2390 driver was built without a phase plug and the throat is stuffed with foam. Using it as a dipole will mean that output from the throat will not be phase corrected although foam will probably dampen the output sufficiently as not to be too noticable.
Below is some information I received from an ex Westrex field engineer regarging the 2626A speakers
"Westrex Book Radiator
I was a field engineer at Westrex, my patch was NW London. I left to set up my own company and Westrex were my main Distributor, so I was often in and out of the Works at Coles Green Road. The following paragraph is not for the squeemish.
Most UK cinemas using Westrex sound and projection equipment were on a lease plus service contract, the gear was owned by Westrex. During late 60's cinemas were fast being converted to multiples, bingo halls or bowling etc, so masses of equipment was being removed. Having no storage space they put large skips behind the works. These were daily filled with 2040 40 watt tube amps (best ever), 2080 bass drivers and 2090 drivers and horns, and sold as scrap. Bass bins were broken up on site. Crying is allowed.
One day when visiting I saw lying by the skip a 2090C driver complete with Book Radiator. I grabbed it and remarked to the warehouse manager (Mr Bill Diamond) 'pity there is not a pair'. 'Wait',we are having a clear-out' he said and went inside and returned with another, which was obviously a prototype, having a rough looking makeshift bracket for mounting but otherwise identical.
I beleive these speakers as shown here were intended to superceed the original Acoustilens model, I cannot be certain but few if any were sold, in which case they are extremely rare. The only ones I knew of were owned by a very few of my fellow engineers. The guys that had them were the cream of the West End sound men, like Gorden Isaacs and Billy Bell. I heard them on a system consisting of a pair of 2040's, a Decca FFSS cartridge and tone arm. I never heard before or since such gorgeous quality from vinyl. But I must say the best systems I ever heard were the circa 1954 4 track mag Cinemascope movies with 3 Westrex bins with cellular horns. Its all gone backwards since. It is no surprise to me that efficient speakers sound far better, its the tight control by the huge magnets and small accurate gap, and stiff ouput of the transfomer coupling, damps overshoot and flapping around.
Back to the Book Radiator; I do still own the original prototype. At one time I pondered copying the perforated sheild and the Book 'pages' and offering them as conversion kit for 2090A. Too old to bother now. I am not familiar with the type number 2390, my memory is fading but as I recall the original horn driver was 2090A (24 ohms) and 2090C (15 ohms and no phase plug) but I could be wrong.
As you may know, if you put LF power to an unmounted bass driver, no loading to control it, it will likely bust the spider and surround. An HF pressure driver with no horn will do the same, fly to bits. Thats why they are tightly bolted up with a gasket. Failure of these drivers is often result of blown seal. If HF diaphragm was left bare with no horn load it would only be able to work at low level without damage. The name Book Radiator is the clue; you cannot slam shut a book however hard you push, you are working to push out the air. Thats what the leaves are for, to load the thing so it has some work to do. The perfotated shield holds the leaves in place and restricts overshoot.
This may be likely reason crossover frequency of these units was raised to 1000hz (Acoustilens was 675 i think, cinema horns were 500).
Changing the subject slightly
here are some pics of cabinets under construction for my BTH K10A 18" dual concentrics.
It's beyond me to attempt anything like this but Steve who has designed and is building the for me has amazing skills.
here are some pics of cabinets under construction for my BTH K10A 18" dual concentrics.
It's beyond me to attempt anything like this but Steve who has designed and is building the for me has amazing skills.
Hi AndyEMT
thanks for the great text from former eng in WE
🙂 really nice thanks
I have also a pair of mono-blocks some WE germanium amps of about 25W per ch
removed input section, only left output section with just 4 same Ge transistor by Mullard
and input-phase split transformer. extremely big power transformers, and I was surprised, but they hod offset zero very very nice.
I just listened a bit them with a pair of old alnico lowthers and was beautiful...
Now I am planning to skip original ugly chasses and too big also, and perform a very simple, Ge WE amp. try to search on this forum i posted original SCH of the amp
but I cant remember where it was?.
.
Anyway I simply cant stand the very high db preasures from the WE 2390A
and I am using 4 units, so that is because I release a preassure 🙂
.
cheers
🙂
thanks for the great text from former eng in WE
🙂 really nice thanks
I have also a pair of mono-blocks some WE germanium amps of about 25W per ch
removed input section, only left output section with just 4 same Ge transistor by Mullard
and input-phase split transformer. extremely big power transformers, and I was surprised, but they hod offset zero very very nice.
I just listened a bit them with a pair of old alnico lowthers and was beautiful...
Now I am planning to skip original ugly chasses and too big also, and perform a very simple, Ge WE amp. try to search on this forum i posted original SCH of the amp
but I cant remember where it was?.
.
Anyway I simply cant stand the very high db preasures from the WE 2390A
and I am using 4 units, so that is because I release a preassure 🙂
.
cheers
🙂
Oh and my WE 2390A units are loaded
from the front with a "Lenses", I put more leaves of lenses and made a hyperbolic shape
of the cutted space. Was simple triangle before and lenses was from metal...
and from the other side, where was the stuffed closed compression chamber,
I removed the old spunge from the stuffing, and leave open the duct.
In the duct I was mount a Karlson coupler or horn.
So I left with lenses on one, and Karlson horn on the other side of the each driver.
So I have some thtoat loading and on each side...
.
Still is very hard to stand the preassure, and with a new 24db/oct xover,
I have to put some T attenuation net...
.
I am using now the old 2 pieces of Quad II tube amps
with a sufficient power for the WE units...
.
Probably I will mount a step down transformer and combine it with a C to acomplish some Xover and attenuation.
cheers
sorry for long txt...
from the front with a "Lenses", I put more leaves of lenses and made a hyperbolic shape
of the cutted space. Was simple triangle before and lenses was from metal...
and from the other side, where was the stuffed closed compression chamber,
I removed the old spunge from the stuffing, and leave open the duct.
In the duct I was mount a Karlson coupler or horn.
So I left with lenses on one, and Karlson horn on the other side of the each driver.
So I have some thtoat loading and on each side...
.
Still is very hard to stand the preassure, and with a new 24db/oct xover,
I have to put some T attenuation net...
.
I am using now the old 2 pieces of Quad II tube amps
with a sufficient power for the WE units...
.
Probably I will mount a step down transformer and combine it with a C to acomplish some Xover and attenuation.
cheers
sorry for long txt...
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