Ah, the old 'avoid addressing the point of the analogy (that evidence-based engineering tends to be more effective than fantasy) by desperate diversion' routine. 😉
So. Let's keep to the point. You (nobody else) claimed that speaker leads have different amounts of voltage drop in an AC circuit when laid in physically different directions. Voltage drop is not a matter of subjective opinion, but a fairly basic aspect of electrical engineering. But we're still waiting for you to provide the data supporting this.
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True enough, the answer being:
1) WHO is "Geocom Technologies" anyway?
2) WHAT verifiable qualifications do they have?
Besides self written praise that is.
Typical snake oil quality
Typical pseudo skeptic detective work.
1) WHO is "Geocom Technologies" anyway?
2) WHAT verifiable qualifications do they have?
Besides self written praise that is.
Typical snake oil quality
Typical pseudo skeptic detective work.
“So. Let's keep to the point. You (nobody else) claimed that speaker leads have different amounts of voltage drop in an AC circuit when laid in physically different directions. Voltage drop is not a matter of subjective opinion, but a fairly basic aspect of electrical engineering. But we're still waiting for you to provide the data supporting this.”
A voltage drop difference was measured for a group of audiophile fuses and stock non-audiophile fuses. Even though that voltage drop difference was very small it correlated to the direction that was judged to be the better sounding direction. what is the inference? That ALL wire exhibits this characteristic - the resistance is measurably lower in one direction than the other. The significance of this - wire is not symmetrical physically or electrically. So, it’s conceivable wire sounds different according to its direction in the circuit. This is evidence, not proof, that something might be going on with wire directionality. Follow?
A voltage drop difference was measured for a group of audiophile fuses and stock non-audiophile fuses. Even though that voltage drop difference was very small it correlated to the direction that was judged to be the better sounding direction. what is the inference? That ALL wire exhibits this characteristic - the resistance is measurably lower in one direction than the other. The significance of this - wire is not symmetrical physically or electrically. So, it’s conceivable wire sounds different according to its direction in the circuit. This is evidence, not proof, that something might be going on with wire directionality. Follow?
I’m not assuming connectors are not an issue but connectors are unrelated to the issue of wire directionality. They are a separate issue. As I pointed out earlier connectors or fuse holders would have random results, whereas wire and cable directionality would have consistent, repeatable, and predictable results. Furthermore the change in the sound due to directionality of wire is more profound than a simple small change in resistance. Or even micro arcing.
That’s why the HiFi Tuning data sheets I linked to was careful to point out that very fact - that listening tests revealed much bigger differences in the sound than could be explained by small differences in resistance.
That’s why the HiFi Tuning data sheets I linked to was careful to point out that very fact - that listening tests revealed much bigger differences in the sound than could be explained by small differences in resistance.
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Here's my attempt at "whataboutism:"
I wonder, what is the technical difference between evidence and proof?
It‘s difficult to obtain absolute proof of anything, mathematical proofs are an exception. Evidence is the sum of all facts, photos, witness testimony, etc. that can lead to a Conclusion. For example, in a court of law “preponderance of the evidence” is the yardstick used to measure the Degree of proof that has been established by all the evidence. But as we all know, juries can be fickle, you never know how the jury is going to vote, even when the evidence appears strong. Lol
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Did they investigate if it was the same in different hemisphere? Coriolis effect at works?
Please Apologize, i couldn't resist.
If people stubbornly refuse to accept science and scientific knowledge, that's a pity, but it's their choice. If these people also consciously try to undermine science and centuries of accumulated knowledge, there is a problem. I have no answer to this ever-expanding phenomenon. I don't even have an explanation for it, other than probably deliberate misinformation. I also wonder what the rationale is, but that's probably beyond the scope of this forum, but they get away with it and confuse others who have little knowledge. And that is a pity, because there is so much valuable to learn. And it's a real challenge not to fall into the trap of making them see this, because it's wasted effort.
“If people stubbornly refuse to accept science and scientific knowledge, that's a pity, but it's their choice. If these people also consciously try to undermine science and centuries of accumulated knowledge, there is a problem.”
Eggs ackley!
Eggs ackley!
I couldn't give a rat's round rosy red jacksie about fuses. You said 'speaker wire', not 'fuse'. So we'll stay on topic. Cease deflecting, start providing.
1/ Within typical measurement tolerance -all information about setup and methodology being significant for its total absence, which no competent test provider would ever do.
2/ Where does it say that?
Which is akin to saying 'My dog has four legs. My cat has four legs. Therefore my dog is a cat.'
No. It really isn't. And that is if you simply accept that twaddle, with its total lack of stated methodology and analysis, at face value, rather than being the advert it is.
Er -twaddle for all three parts. First is lifted from a totally unsound source. Second is an erroneous conclusion derived from said. Third is an erroneous statement drawn from said.
So: still waiting for your evidence about measurable voltage drop in speaker wire when laid in physically difference directions. If all you have is this advert for expensive fuses, then you have none.
This "report" contains some interesting mistakes one could do by measuring:
First of all, I hope that the comma in their numbers is equivalent to the decimal point outside of Germany.
First mistake: For comparing two values, it is essential to know that the values have a normal (Gaussian) distribution, the spread of which is characterized by the standard deviation s. For testing whether 44.47 mOhm is different from 44.57 mOhm, we need to know s.A single measurement is therefore useless (!). You need at least 3, better more measurements for estimating s. Then you can apply the Student-t-test (see below for a calculation).
Second: It is suspicious that all (!) values from direction 2 are higher than from direction 1. Assuming that there is directionality in the fuse, you would not know a priori, which direction is tested first. So chances should be 50:50 to measure the smaller value first. Not the case, here, so it cannot be directionality. What is it then? I would say, the positive temperature coefficient of resistance for metals. For copper the coefficient is 0.00393 / °C. The first measurement heats the wire by a few tenth of a degree, which changes its resistance accordingly. Repeated measurements for each direction would have shown an upward trend until thermal equilibrium would have been reached (hopefully).
Third: What instruments were used to measure resistance down into the micro-Ohm region and what is the repeatability of a measurement (see the estimate for s below)? Very demanding task, I would say from own experience with Kelvin clips attached to a Keysight 34465A.
My conclusion: The claims made in this "report" are not justified, because they lack scientific evidence.
In detail: For the values 44.47 and 44.57 mOhm being different on the 95% level, the standard deviation for three measurements must be smaller than 0.031 mOhm! The scientifically correct statement would read like this: First direction 44.47 +/- 0.03 mOhm, second direction 44.57 +/- 0.03 mOhm (given that both directions show the same standard deviation).
Suspicious? I would say overly suspicious. Most pseudo skeptics are. No surprise there. Besides, you didn’t even find the biggest error in the data sheets.
“Er -twaddle for all three parts. First is lifted from a totally unsound source. Second is an erroneous conclusion derived from said. Third is an erroneous statement drawn from said.
So: still waiting for your evidence about measurable voltage drop in speaker wire when laid in physically difference directions. If all you have is this advert for expensive fuses, then you have none.”
An angry pseudo skeptics who’s run out of ammo.
So: still waiting for your evidence about measurable voltage drop in speaker wire when laid in physically difference directions. If all you have is this advert for expensive fuses, then you have none.”
An angry pseudo skeptics who’s run out of ammo.
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