Hi all
This week I bought this beauty, a Grundig Konzertschrank Rossini 8:
However, the audio sounds pretty horrible. It has a build in amplifier, a record player, a tape recorder and two build in speakers:
The cabinets left and right have a different size (because of the different devices on top) and the backsides of the cabinet are closed with very thin loose perforated wood. Inside are old Grundig oval speakers. 30cm x 18cm type 7048-036
This is the speaker:
So I am planning on upgrading the audio of this beauty, while leaving the whole structure intact. I already have a small digital amp that meets most of my requirements, so it is mainly the speakers i am worried about. How should I go about this?
Difficulties:
1. The speaker cabinets themselves in the Rossini will be pretty difficult to seal (especially the right one, where the top of the cabinet is the turntable on top, I mean, the turntable is basically build on the topside of the speaker cabinet, sticking through).
Closing the backside of the cabinets will be easy enough, but the cabinets will be a different size. The left one is basically half the grill's height, the left one about 4/5 of the grill's height. The one on the left can be sealed completely, the right one not.
It will also be difficult to have a different opening in the front than the current oval whole for the Grundig oval speaker (the beautiful speaker grill seems to be glued to the piece of wood with the opening for the speaker in it, high risk of damaging the grill if i was to enlarge or remove this piece).
What I have done now is place small bookshelf speakers i made with Audience A3 drivers in the cabinets.
It sounds a lot better, but still lacks a lot of bass. So I could work with a build in small sub, or an external small sub.
But I am curious if you guys have any other ideas? I cant seem to find a replacement for the old Grundig speakers....
Any tips or ideas very much appreciated!
This week I bought this beauty, a Grundig Konzertschrank Rossini 8:
However, the audio sounds pretty horrible. It has a build in amplifier, a record player, a tape recorder and two build in speakers:
The cabinets left and right have a different size (because of the different devices on top) and the backsides of the cabinet are closed with very thin loose perforated wood. Inside are old Grundig oval speakers. 30cm x 18cm type 7048-036
This is the speaker:
So I am planning on upgrading the audio of this beauty, while leaving the whole structure intact. I already have a small digital amp that meets most of my requirements, so it is mainly the speakers i am worried about. How should I go about this?
Difficulties:
1. The speaker cabinets themselves in the Rossini will be pretty difficult to seal (especially the right one, where the top of the cabinet is the turntable on top, I mean, the turntable is basically build on the topside of the speaker cabinet, sticking through).
Closing the backside of the cabinets will be easy enough, but the cabinets will be a different size. The left one is basically half the grill's height, the left one about 4/5 of the grill's height. The one on the left can be sealed completely, the right one not.
It will also be difficult to have a different opening in the front than the current oval whole for the Grundig oval speaker (the beautiful speaker grill seems to be glued to the piece of wood with the opening for the speaker in it, high risk of damaging the grill if i was to enlarge or remove this piece).
What I have done now is place small bookshelf speakers i made with Audience A3 drivers in the cabinets.
It sounds a lot better, but still lacks a lot of bass. So I could work with a build in small sub, or an external small sub.
But I am curious if you guys have any other ideas? I cant seem to find a replacement for the old Grundig speakers....
Any tips or ideas very much appreciated!
My usual suggestion is to place a pair of bookshelf speakers inside the cabinet as you have done.
Please clarify your statement, "The left one is basically half the grill's height, the left one about 4/5 of the grill's height".
Would it not be possible to seal the right enclosure with a horizontal 'shelf' placed under the workings of the turntable, and then to adjust the volume of the left enclosure to match?
Please clarify your statement, "The left one is basically half the grill's height, the left one about 4/5 of the grill's height".
Would it not be possible to seal the right enclosure with a horizontal 'shelf' placed under the workings of the turntable, and then to adjust the volume of the left enclosure to match?
Galu: i have edited the left left mistake, the second one should have been right. I edited something about the size of the enclosures:
edit
IF i would close of the right one, i could make here a sealed enclosure of 40 cm deep, 15 cm high, and about 35 cm wide.
as it is, the left one is 4 cm higher.
If i would take out the turntable, I could make two similar closed enclosures of 40 x 18 x 35 cm.
In theory, if I remove the compartment of the tape recorder and I remove the turntable, I could have two enclosures of 40 x 38 x 35cm. It would take quite some work of taking the constructions out, without damaging the whole....
* edit*
edit
IF i would close of the right one, i could make here a sealed enclosure of 40 cm deep, 15 cm high, and about 35 cm wide.
as it is, the left one is 4 cm higher.
If i would take out the turntable, I could make two similar closed enclosures of 40 x 18 x 35 cm.
In theory, if I remove the compartment of the tape recorder and I remove the turntable, I could have two enclosures of 40 x 38 x 35cm. It would take quite some work of taking the constructions out, without damaging the whole....
* edit*
This was built andf offered between 1973 and 1976, not in the 1960ies. A 1960ies Rossini would be tube powered. The electronics part also was available as a standalone unit, called either RTV 701 or RC 500. Hope that helps.
I'd take out the TT, as the Dual 1220 with that crystal pickup is mediocre at it's best, and glue in a horizontal board at the same height as the left speaker compartment. Maybe the original speakers sound won't no longe be that evil with the foam gaskets replaced accordingly and the compartments sealed?
Best regards!
I'd take out the TT, as the Dual 1220 with that crystal pickup is mediocre at it's best, and glue in a horizontal board at the same height as the left speaker compartment. Maybe the original speakers sound won't no longe be that evil with the foam gaskets replaced accordingly and the compartments sealed?
Best regards!
Basically none of the components inside this cabinet are worth keeping.
The transistor amps of that time sound awfull. Grundig made huge money at that time with quite solid components, but did not care for sound quality. People had hardly anything to compare and bought the "brand", not the sound. The best part should have been the sensitve tuner section. The record player will have a cryistal-piezo pick up, which ruins any record only played once with it. The tape should be fine for voice recording, but have very limited frequency response.
The oval speakers are nothing special like the hyped green cones, but awfull and cheap.
One idea would be to simply place two speakers into the aviable space, a nice D-amp and source it by bluetooth. This way you can keep the whole thing original, there should even be space to store the ovale speakers.This way you can use it and still keep it's historic value if there is one.
The other option, removing all the old electronic's and rebuilding with a pair of stereo speaker inside, may be interesting at first sight. The reality is that with the speakers placed that low, sound reproduction will be very limited and lack any spacious, transparent sound. Even if you are able to match the speaker crossover to the large baffle this furniture represents, you won't get the sound to ear level. Compare it to a car stereo with speakers low in the front doors. Audible, but not enjoyable.
If you like the look of the whole thing (very much personal taste), don't care for it's "original" condition and want serious sound, consider converting part of it into a subwoofer or two and use the remaining space for an amp, sub x-over, DSP and your preferred gear, like a CD player if you still use one, a streamer etc. . Then use two additional separate satellite speaker's at an appropiate position.
The transistor amps of that time sound awfull. Grundig made huge money at that time with quite solid components, but did not care for sound quality. People had hardly anything to compare and bought the "brand", not the sound. The best part should have been the sensitve tuner section. The record player will have a cryistal-piezo pick up, which ruins any record only played once with it. The tape should be fine for voice recording, but have very limited frequency response.
The oval speakers are nothing special like the hyped green cones, but awfull and cheap.
One idea would be to simply place two speakers into the aviable space, a nice D-amp and source it by bluetooth. This way you can keep the whole thing original, there should even be space to store the ovale speakers.This way you can use it and still keep it's historic value if there is one.
The other option, removing all the old electronic's and rebuilding with a pair of stereo speaker inside, may be interesting at first sight. The reality is that with the speakers placed that low, sound reproduction will be very limited and lack any spacious, transparent sound. Even if you are able to match the speaker crossover to the large baffle this furniture represents, you won't get the sound to ear level. Compare it to a car stereo with speakers low in the front doors. Audible, but not enjoyable.
If you like the look of the whole thing (very much personal taste), don't care for it's "original" condition and want serious sound, consider converting part of it into a subwoofer or two and use the remaining space for an amp, sub x-over, DSP and your preferred gear, like a CD player if you still use one, a streamer etc. . Then use two additional separate satellite speaker's at an appropiate position.
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I'd look not that badly at Grundig gear of those days. I own a 1972 Grundig Studio 2000 HiFi console, pulled from the dumpsters, and I'm rather proud of it. Sound is typically 1970ies, but pleasant anyway. Radio section is, typical for Grundig since the 1950ies, very sensitive and selective. Maybe this unit is some bit superior to the Rossini, though. At least the original TT was a Dual 1226, a better record player than the 1220. I've converted it into almost a 1228, using that motor, platter and tonearm:
Best regards!
Best regards!
I think that would be an interesting experiment.
However, I'm not sure whether Dave would find it interesting or uninteresting! 😊
P.S. The components of the tweeter crossover would warrant close inspection.
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These speakers have no foam gasket problem, they are in an open, resonant box and sound like that. You may simply replace the gasket that is between them and the cabinet to verify this. Maybe you gain a little low end.
This newer, 1972 Grundig Studio 2000 HiFi console is one of the products they made, when Japanese HIFI had entered the market and Grundig had to modernize. Something the very special situation with Grundig's leadership did not really allow. They where used to decade long product cycles, while the Japanese had a culture of constant improving, throwing new models on the market year by year.
Anyway, at Grundig they still did not see and understand what the profitable, returning customers wanted. They could not understand the demand for high power and objectivly better sound. So they sold only to the conservative customers, that bought once and keept their gear for a live time. The younger, performance oriented customer, who constantly bought new components and tried to stay up to date, making HIFI a life style hobby, turned to the Japanese makers.
The loudspeaker Grundig build where just an accessory, an inconvenient necessity for them and thats what they sounded like. Well made from the outside, outdated chassis inside.
Tragically the technically interesting HIFI products from Grundig where build at a time when Grundig was alreday bankrupt. A very good example how failed managment of a stuborn leadership killed a once profitable company.
This newer, 1972 Grundig Studio 2000 HiFi console is one of the products they made, when Japanese HIFI had entered the market and Grundig had to modernize. Something the very special situation with Grundig's leadership did not really allow. They where used to decade long product cycles, while the Japanese had a culture of constant improving, throwing new models on the market year by year.
Anyway, at Grundig they still did not see and understand what the profitable, returning customers wanted. They could not understand the demand for high power and objectivly better sound. So they sold only to the conservative customers, that bought once and keept their gear for a live time. The younger, performance oriented customer, who constantly bought new components and tried to stay up to date, making HIFI a life style hobby, turned to the Japanese makers.
The loudspeaker Grundig build where just an accessory, an inconvenient necessity for them and thats what they sounded like. Well made from the outside, outdated chassis inside.
Tragically the technically interesting HIFI products from Grundig where build at a time when Grundig was alreday bankrupt. A very good example how failed managment of a stuborn leadership killed a once profitable company.
Dind't you know that Grundig, in contrast to most other German manufacturers, ran their own speaker R&D department?
Best regards!
That was their problem, they tried to do anything slow, Grundig style "in house", while the world spun faster.
They where used to decide, from an engineers view, what the custumer had to buy and ignored the changing demand in a consumer market.
When the monthly "Sperrmüll" was put out on the street, a special kind of garbage collection in Germany, in the finacilly better parts of town you could collect all these Grundig stuff of past years for free.
People didn't want it any more.
They where used to decide, from an engineers view, what the custumer had to buy and ignored the changing demand in a consumer market.
When the monthly "Sperrmüll" was put out on the street, a special kind of garbage collection in Germany, in the finacilly better parts of town you could collect all these Grundig stuff of past years for free.
People didn't want it any more.
What I wanted to say: Don't expect any audio sensation from this "sound furniture". It was reliable, but not high fidelity. Sometimes old stuff is simply outdated, not magic.
Yes, this has been the source of most of my gear those days. As yet said, my Studio 2000 HiFi also came right out of the dumpsters in the summer of 2013, together with a pair of compact loudspeakers with rotten foam surrounds that I repaired. Presently it sits in our sleeping room.
Berst regards!
Berst regards!