Upgrade Jordan JX92S

Triumph

Member
2005-06-05 3:43 pm
Holland
Jordan JX92S Upgrade

This is my first time ever to write something on a forum, but what I experienced lately made me so enthusiast that I decided to share it with you.
I use a single Jordan JX92S as a centerspeaker in a home cinema setting. The reason for this choice was that I found that a single wide band driver is in comparison with the more usual d’Appolito configuration much more direct. Especially for voice the sound from a single wide band driver is special, as probably all of you have experience this already. As an amplifier I use a Linn Classic Movie Di, which I integrated in the centerspeaker. The speaker is double TML, double because of the forced ventilation of the Linn (at one side of the TML cool air comes in the other side warm air out). Built in the centerspeaker the Linn’s internal ventilator is silent. The speaker direct underneath my television.

But at every good side there is a bad side. With the Jordan I found the middle was too loud so I added a BSC. This was much better but still I found the sound a little too warm, round and wooly. There is a bit lack of high. Inspired from the Jordan/Aurum Cantus Gs2i mini monitor design I tested the Jordan with some tweeters. But there were some problems mostly space, diffuse sound, complex filter, cost etc. I also experimented with small piëzo car speakers, too sharp!

Until I read in the German DIY magazine Hobby Hifi from February 2005 a test from 11 tweeters. One of them was the EB Cantare Surface Slim. In the same month another German DIY magazine Klang Und Ton came with the design from “the little Wing” a Veravox 5s wide band with the Surface Slim. It looks like the Surface Slim could be the answer for my prayers. These magazines from my German neighbors are well documented and one of the best DIY magazines I ever saw.

The Surface Slim is a Italian made tiny magnetostat supertweeter wich you can use from 7.5KHz to 40KHz. It measures 36mm round and only 9 mm thick! 3.20 Ohm, 87dB. I made a small housing for it and placed it on the edge of the Jordan, as close as possible. The only thing I used is a 3,3 µF capacitor, that’s it, no 2e or 3e order Butterworth or complex crossovers. It probably kicks in around 10KHz. For experimental use I added two switches between the supertweeter and to shortcut the BSC.

The effect from this little miracle was enormous. The round and wooly sound was gone, but still there was a distinguished Jordan sound, certainly not sharp just right. This is the sound I was looking for and better matching with my other speakers the Diapason Ares. I have listened too lots of music DVD and movies the last few weeks and it was a great time. The Surface Slim has added something to the Jordans what I think they were missing. With voice, piano, saxophone it is the difference between the sound of a braking beer bottle and the sound of braking Swarovski crystal. There is more detail. With movies you can hear the dialogs better, you even can hear whereto the microphone is aimed or if it is a later on synchronized studio recording, voice over. Do not be afraid of sharp S, T and F sounds in vocals, there is nothing more than without the Surface Slim. Also the off middle listening position is much less critical.
Now you can upgrade your Jordans to SACD. It even makes the use of a BSC less necessary (also depends from its housing).
It can challenge any center d’Appolito speaker for directness. Have you noticed that a d’Appolito center sounds better standing vertical than horizontal? Now only on the bass you can loose, that you can improve with a sub (Jordan recommends the great JM acoustic).

You can choose any other supertweeter but the funny part of it is that the Surface Slim is so small and so easy to add, connect and cheap you can add it to almost any existing design “The Wall” “Tidy TL” “Essence” etc.
If you don’t trust me, try it. They are so small you can stick it with some tape on the edge of the Jordan! The cost only €55,-. you can order them at http://www.lautsprechershop.de/

On the website of Ted Jordan at FAQ there is something about the adding of a supertweeter is not recommended because for the Jordans exceptional detail and fase coherency . I must disagree on this. I noticed no reduce of detail, on the contrary, and no problems with fase coherency.

I have no measuring equipment to prove all of this, just my ears. So probably you can improve it even better with a more tuned crossover. I leave that to the forum.


Ps.
There is almost nothing to find on the internet over the EB Acoustic technology Cantare Surface Slim. Even on the EB acoustic website there is nothing http://www. ebacoustic.it.

Try http://www.lautsprechershop.de/ Iris Strassacker K+T then on the Klang und Ton workshop you can find the “Little Wing” with the Surface slim.
On the same website go from the homepage to Peter Strassacker - Zeitschriften Hobby HiFi- Inhalt der hefte Hoby - HiFi 2/2005- test 11 hochtöner There you can order the Surface Slim.
 
Hi.

Please be aware, that both magazines are not really helpfull when it comes to erratas and updates.
Both magazines are having problems on that part.
Often they publish wrong crossover schematics, wrong driver data or wrong measurement graphs...

But some of their constructions are good, some of them...

It is very helpfull to visit their websites often to get erratas before they are published 2 months later.

But I'm not trying to warn you in any way, it's just meant as "goodwill tip"... :goodbad:

And :wave: welcome to the forum.

Greetings, B.
 
Scottmoose said:
BSC = Baffle Step Correction. It's a compensation circuit which is usually designed to reduce response in a specific part of the audio band. Typically an inductor and resistor in parallel in the hot lead, with a zobel network across + & -, though some leave out the zobel.


Ahh thanks, yes I know about BSC, just didn't connect it with BSC.;)

Jan Didden
 

Triumph

Member
2005-06-05 3:43 pm
Holland
Thanks forum for your reply and welcome.

Cal, at first I did not have a question but after forum comments I have.
Benny, I am warned now. It sounds great already it can only go better.
Soongsc, Yes I am interested but your circuit must be able to match with the surface slim because I am not wanted to miss it any more.

So therefore I enclosed some information about my current system:

The BSC
-0,68 mH
-22 µF
-3,3 Ù
No notchfilter is used.

The Surface Slim is connected with only a 3,3 µF cap.

Forum suggestions for improvement? Famous saying in Holland: Let’s make things better.

I also attached factory information about recommended crossover and values for the Surface Slim.

T.
 

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soongsc

Member
2005-03-26 2:31 pm
Taiwan
Triumph said:
Thanks forum for your reply and welcome.

Soongsc, Yes I am interested but your circuit must be able to match with the surface slim because I am not wanted to miss it any more.

So therefore I enclosed some information about my current system:

The BSC
-0,68 mH
-22 µF
-3,3 ?
No notchfilter is used.

The Surface Slim is connected with only a 3,3 µF cap.

Forum suggestions for improvement? Famous saying in Holland: Let’s make things better.

I also attached factory information about recommended crossover and values for the Surface Slim.

T.

I couldn't find the Surface Slim product at the site you referenced.

I think lots of people compensate the JX92S in ways that actually cut off the hi end and not really using the potential of the JX92S. But since you are already happy with the Surface Slim, you do not need my compensation circuit.
 

soongsc

Member
2005-03-26 2:31 pm
Taiwan
Triumph said:
Soongsc

Even without BSC, so no cutting off whatsoever, the adding of the supertweeter makes the difference. I do not know how to get this out of the Jordan in another way.

I am open for it so can you tell me how to do it in another way?

Actually, compensation is necessary to balance the high and the mids. Without anything, the highs are also decayed.

What is the box volume for the JX92S? My compensation would reduce the efficiency by probably 6db would it be okay?
 
My BSC

The switches are for expirimental use only.

The BSC just softens the middle a bit, but not too much.

The notch reduces the high, but levels the high and I think it gives a better quality of high freq. It also makes the BSC more efficiënt. Without the Surface Slim I switched it off, with the Surfase Slim it is on again.

I am thinking of change the 3.3 cap for the Surface Slim for a bigger one to kick in earlyer. I do not know when it kicks in, but I think not before 15kHz. Maybe someone can calculate it?

I am very enthusiast about adding this small supertweeter it really makes the differance!
 

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soongsc

Member
2005-03-26 2:31 pm
Taiwan
Triumph said:
My BSC

The switches are for expirimental use only.

The BSC just softens the middle a bit, but not too much.

The notch reduces the high, but levels the high and I think it gives a better quality of high freq. It also makes the BSC more efficiënt. Without the Surface Slim I switched it off, with the Surfase Slim it is on again.

I am thinking of change the 3.3 cap for the Surface Slim for a bigger one to kick in earlyer. I do not know when it kicks in, but I think not before 15kHz. Maybe someone can calculate it?

I am very enthusiast about adding this small supertweeter it really makes the differance!

Just the BSC without the supertweeter, you will get around 12db loss at 20K. Since the acoustic characteristic for the tweeter is not clear, and the impedance curve is not available. The only way to to calculation is by actually testing the driver first.
 

Landroval

Member
2004-10-14 1:21 pm
I think he wanted to change the 3,3uF to 5uF to lower the x-over for the tweeter.

Edit: Yeah, that's not the only thing I wanted to say. How's it going with the SS? I'm looking for a tweeter or something to go with the JX92S and this looks like a worthy competitor to the G2Si.