Tony Gee or Zaph's all metal Sea's design?

ShinOBIWAN

diyAudio Member
2004-02-25 9:13 pm
UK
Hi all,

I've decided to build my cousin a set of speakers for Christmas since he's helped me through some rough times over the last few years. So I'd like to kill two birds with one stone, upgrade his ageing but much loved/used hi-fi and thank him for the support.

I've been looking at two designs primarily:

Tony Gee's HATT MKIII

and

Zaph's 27TBFG & L18RNX/P

Both designs share the same the tweeter but different mid/bass drivers and design philosphy.

The best thing to do would be to outline the type of music my cousin listens to:

Large collection of 12" Vinyl (Dance, Trance, Hardhouse)
Huge collection of CD's (mainly Dance again but quite a large cross-section of genre's. His philosphy is if you enjoy it, then its good music. So he tends to have all sorts and doesn't really letterbox himself, although as shown, dance music is a big part of his collection.

I should mention that he uses a subwoofer so don't be put off by the small size of these speakers and the words 'dance music'.

What he wants or at least what I think he wants :) is more musicality, much more soundstaging and imaging and a touch of class to the sound. What he has now is some 10+ year old budget and beatup Jamo floorstanders - they can rock but sound like sonic sandpaper.

Its strange that he absolutely loves music, periodically upgraded his electronics but never those damn aweful speakers! I know he'd like to upgrade though but doesn't have the means at the moment - new mortgage and girlfriend.

Since he's possibly one of the nicest chaps you could ever meet, I'd like to bring some life to his system again and give it the personal touch by DIY'ing the whole thing.

Any suggestions welcome!

Thanks,
Ant
 

tktran

Disabled Account
2003-03-17 4:30 am
Perth
kram0.com
Hi Shin,

I comtemplated this question awhile ago. The Hatt MkIII uses the 27TBFG, that is, the one without the chamber, so it has a higher Fs. I'm not sure how it compares to the 27TBFCG, but just wanted to point out the difference.

I hate to admit it, but I was part-time club DJ at one point in my life. I've totally steered away from that scene (one reason is greed- my money is better spent on music I'd like listening to, rather than music that the crowd likes to hear :D), but one thing I know, it is dance music. I've been listening to house, techno, trance, DnB, breaks, electro etc from about 1990, and I still do, but these days usually at the gym during an intense workout on the treadmill or rowing ergo.

Anyway, about the Hatt Mk3 vs SEAS All Metal System. I've been told that the Hatt Mk3 sounds very similar to the DD8 Mk2, except for lower sensitivity and power handling, which basically determines the max SPL. Makes sense- A 4.5" midwoofer can't compete with a 7" in this department.

It also less bass extension, but that is less of an issue because he has a subwoofer.

Note that the DD8 Mk2 uses is very similar to the All Metal System, except that it uses the older H1142 L18RNXP.

So between the Hatt Mk2 and AMS, I'd take the Zaph's design. The ability to play loud, and being able to shake some fillings loose are probably two most important factors in dance music. :)

Having built the AMS, If I wanted something that could play LOUD, and have better dynamics, I'd consider Zaph's Vifa XG18/27TDFC/XG18 MTM design. The tradeoff is a slightly increased costs, size and perhaps slight loss in fine detail. But this may be an advantage in terms of dance music - a little more forgiving of poorer recordings (dance music vinyl/.mp3/CD esp. live on-location mixes certainly falls into this category),

In a ported floorstanding design, I think your cousin would be VERY happy.
 

DearSX

Member
2005-07-29 1:11 am
RI
another all aluminum design is Jonmarsh's RS180 mid and 27TBFG tweeter combo. you can even upgrade it to the MTM version. although for around an extra $150 bucks. Not sure which mid has more detail in the sound, but they are both pretty close in most measured and listening respects.
 

ShinOBIWAN

diyAudio Member
2004-02-25 9:13 pm
UK
tktran said:
Hi Shin,

I comtemplated this question awhile ago. The Hatt MkIII uses the 27TBFG, that is, the one without the chamber, so it has a higher Fs. I'm not sure how it compares to the 27TBFCG, but just wanted to point out the difference.

I hate to admit it, but I was part-time club DJ at one point in my life. I've totally steered away from that scene (one reason is greed- my money is better spent on music I'd like listening to, rather than music that the crowd likes to hear :D), but one thing I know, it is dance music. I've been listening to house, techno, trance, DnB, breaks, electro etc from about 1990, and I still do, but these days usually at the gym during an intense workout on the treadmill or rowing ergo.

Anyway, about the Hatt Mk3 vs SEAS All Metal System. I've been told that the Hatt Mk3 sounds very similar to the DD8 Mk2, except for lower sensitivity and power handling, which basically determines the max SPL. Makes sense- A 4.5" midwoofer can't compete with a 7" in this department.

It also less bass extension, but that is less of an issue because he has a subwoofer.

Note that the DD8 Mk2 uses is very similar to the All Metal System, except that it uses the older H1142 L18RNXP.

So between the Hatt Mk2 and AMS, I'd take the Zaph's design. The ability to play loud, and being able to shake some fillings loose are probably two most important factors in dance music. :)

Having built the AMS, If I wanted something that could play LOUD, and have better dynamics, I'd consider Zaph's Vifa XG18/27TDFC/XG18 MTM design. The tradeoff is a slightly increased costs, size and perhaps slight loss in fine detail. But this may be an advantage in terms of dance music - a little more forgiving of poorer recordings (dance music vinyl/.mp3/CD esp. live on-location mixes certainly falls into this category),

In a ported floorstanding design, I think your cousin would be VERY happy.

Hi TK,

Cheers for your thoughts and suggestions.

I guess I've come at this the wrong way, I've sorta took what I'd like from a budget speaker and applied it that way.

He, like yourself, DJ's but in his case its only to entertain friends after a night out or just for the hell of it.
He's not a volume monster because of the fact he's getting on a little now and has settled down somewhat - he'd probably deny that if he read this :)

My primary reason for looking to bookshelf designs was simply a labour issue. I wanted the cabinets to look great but didn't want to draw them out into a month long build like a floorstanding would be. I'd certainly veneer them as its much quicker than a spray job. I think its definitely best if I stick to a standmount rather than dilute the finished results if I did floorstander

I think it would be best if I stuck to proven design rather than create something myself, afterall the hardwork has already been done by somebody else and besides that I've got projects of my own that need my attention also.

So right now I think I'll know the HATT mkIII on the head since its 4" is likely to be insufficient should he require headbanging levels. That means Zaphs AMS looks good as well as Gee's DD mkII?

Anymore suggestions? I'm in no hurry as these will be an xmas present but I would like the best for the money and the listening criteria setout.

BTW: The listening room is a normal size ie. approx 20ft x 18ft x 10ft
 
Tony mentions "The Seas L18RNX/P (H1142/H1224)" and he shows a picture of the 1142. The 1142 is a very different driver from the improved 1224 and will require a different crossover because the cone breakup occurs at a lower frequency. I'd go with Zaph's crossover which is specifically optimized for the 1224.