DEEP EXPLORATIONS IN CIRCULAR TERRITORIES!
I wanted to create a pushpull version of Son of Zen, but dont like "complimentary" P and N channel Fets. Soo this is my idea!
Any and all feedback, thoughts or whatever, is very welcome.
This drawing is without feed
back and bias circuitry to make it easy to understand. Its just the basic idea.
I wanted to create a pushpull version of Son of Zen, but dont like "complimentary" P and N channel Fets. Soo this is my idea!
Any and all feedback, thoughts or whatever, is very welcome.
This drawing is without feed
back and bias circuitry to make it easy to understand. Its just the basic idea.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
This is a more complet drawing. Probably a little harder to grasp at first sight. The inputs are cross coupled. positive input is one on the top section to the right and the one on the down section to the left, and the opposite for the negative input connections. The feedback is crosscoupled to.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
You're making me dizzy 
....
somehow it looks so simple that I wonder why noby else came up with it, on the other hand, it somehow slips my mind to ready undetstand it...
....somehow it looks so simple that I wonder why noby else came up with it, on the other hand, it somehow slips my mind to ready undetstand it...
I did something similar...called it a "Double Cross." My version had a front end, used both N & P-ch devices, and was X once I got the front end straightened out. Lost the schematic during one of my computer adventures a year or two ago, but might be able to locate a hard copy. If you use N & P devices, you'll only need one (bipolar) power supply.
Note that the output is high Z, and as such will have limited application; high efficiency speakers and possibly tweeters. I dropped the concept and went on to other things. Since then I've thought of a thing or two that might make me want to revisit the concept, but it will be quite some time before I get to do so.
Grey
Note that the output is high Z, and as such will have limited application; high efficiency speakers and possibly tweeters. I dropped the concept and went on to other things. Since then I've thought of a thing or two that might make me want to revisit the concept, but it will be quite some time before I get to do so.
Grey
N and P devices is a tradeoff in a circuit that depends on close matching!? I rather have two floating supplies than P Fets.
Why high output-Z? I think the feedback will lower the output-Z a lot. With low gain (4-8X) the output-Z should drop down to 1-2 ohm region!?
Se Mr Pass article about the Son of Zen V.7 :http://www.passdiy.com/pdf/zen-v7.pdf
This circuit should have more gain and with feedback lower output-Z.
Circlomanen,
IMHO
Your circuit appears to be two differential amplifiers in parallel. The signal currents coming out of the drains to the node with the load resistor and supply connection would seem to cancel (add up to the value of the CCS). Thus the resulting current flows back into the supply (it has to because the supply is in series with the CCS) and no current would pass through the load. In other words calculate Kirkoffs current law for that node and the current through the load will be zero.
Tom
IMHO
Your circuit appears to be two differential amplifiers in parallel. The signal currents coming out of the drains to the node with the load resistor and supply connection would seem to cancel (add up to the value of the CCS). Thus the resulting current flows back into the supply (it has to because the supply is in series with the CCS) and no current would pass through the load. In other words calculate Kirkoffs current law for that node and the current through the load will be zero.
Tom
Yes!! I came to the same conclusion on my way home from work!Tom2 said:
To look at the bright side of things: 100% losses means no distortion and happy neighbours!
😀
As far as N and P devices, match N devices to each other and P devices to each other. This is no more than you'd do anyway, since you're using them in a differential configuration. The Ns and Ps do not have to be matched to each other.
The final output impedance will depend on the amount of feedback, but will in any event be higher than a follower output stage. It's not necessarily a deal-killer, just something to keep in mind.
I was looking for ways to replace the load resistors in the SOZ and hit on the idea of using an opposing pair of Drains, which led to P-ch devices and so on. There are advantages and disadvantages. As usual, it's a question of tradeoffs. I ended up with (I think) three variants on the idea before I tore it all down and did other things. I'm on the verge of having enough stuff that I'll be able to leave amps assembled once I'm done playing with them, in case I want to go back to them, but not there yet. In particular, heatsinks are always in short supply and get reused endlessly.
I believe I've remembered the original input stage that I used (which Nelson saw), but still can't pull together the versions that followed. Haven't had time to go looking for printed schematics--been playing farmer, getting tomatoes etc. in the ground for all the veggie-loving folks to eat over the summer. Got the sunburn to prove it. And the fire ant stings, too. (Those who say that fire ants 'bite' are incorrect. They are members of Hymenoptera, like my bees, and use stingers to get their point across...)(Ahem)
Grey
The final output impedance will depend on the amount of feedback, but will in any event be higher than a follower output stage. It's not necessarily a deal-killer, just something to keep in mind.
I was looking for ways to replace the load resistors in the SOZ and hit on the idea of using an opposing pair of Drains, which led to P-ch devices and so on. There are advantages and disadvantages. As usual, it's a question of tradeoffs. I ended up with (I think) three variants on the idea before I tore it all down and did other things. I'm on the verge of having enough stuff that I'll be able to leave amps assembled once I'm done playing with them, in case I want to go back to them, but not there yet. In particular, heatsinks are always in short supply and get reused endlessly.
I believe I've remembered the original input stage that I used (which Nelson saw), but still can't pull together the versions that followed. Haven't had time to go looking for printed schematics--been playing farmer, getting tomatoes etc. in the ground for all the veggie-loving folks to eat over the summer. Got the sunburn to prove it. And the fire ant stings, too. (Those who say that fire ants 'bite' are incorrect. They are members of Hymenoptera, like my bees, and use stingers to get their point across...)(Ahem)
Grey
Isn't this design a little redundant? With two phases 0-180 ( + and - inputs) you are kind of limited to differential-type design.
Now if you could itroduce two more phases to the input signal the 90 and 270 than you might have something different but this is audio so I don't thik it'll work.
Now if you could itroduce two more phases to the input signal the 90 and 270 than you might have something different but this is audio so I don't thik it'll work.
THE PENTATRON!?!?!?
Could a audio system (amp + speaker(s) ) be made in some way with a multiphase arrangement??? I have been playing with the idea but never seriously. I suppose you will have to split the phases digitaly somewhere. 90, 180, 270, 360 or a 3 phase arrangement. You can run elevaters and heavy industrial equipment so why not audio ???
Imagine a 5 phase system with 5 x 300 volt supplylines and switched outputs!!!! Serious power!!!! (wouldnt be fun matching 5 banks of 50 fets)
Circlomanens new toy: THE TOPSECRET "PENTATRON" !!!!Only the devil understands the circuit and it sounds wonderfull on black metal music.😀
Not only redundant but even NOT WORKING....
Could a audio system (amp + speaker(s) ) be made in some way with a multiphase arrangement??? I have been playing with the idea but never seriously. I suppose you will have to split the phases digitaly somewhere. 90, 180, 270, 360 or a 3 phase arrangement. You can run elevaters and heavy industrial equipment so why not audio ???
Imagine a 5 phase system with 5 x 300 volt supplylines and switched outputs!!!! Serious power!!!! (wouldnt be fun matching 5 banks of 50 fets)
Circlomanens new toy: THE TOPSECRET "PENTATRON" !!!!Only the devil understands the circuit and it sounds wonderfull on black metal music.😀
Re: THE PENTATRON!?!?!?
You could for instance generate 3 signals each 120 degrees shifted in phase, and then feed them to a 3-phase transformer with the speaker on the single-phase load side. Is that an option?
Jan Didden
Circlomanen said:
You could for instance generate 3 signals each 120 degrees shifted in phase, and then feed them to a 3-phase transformer with the speaker on the single-phase load side. Is that an option?
Jan Didden
re pentatron
Why limit yourself to three dimensions?
Making the circuit supersymmetric would be trivial.
Tom
Why limit yourself to three dimensions?
Making the circuit supersymmetric would be trivial.
Tom
Tom2 said:
That seems workable, but I guess you would need a multi-N-phase transformer to combine everything at the ultimate load?
Jan Didden
Isnt there any way of making the "mix" of the diffrent phases in the loudspeaker???
Multiple voicecoils with different magnetsystems for each so they kick in at different parts of the travel throughout the sinewave, kind of similar to a multiplephase electric engine??? Seems impossible but I dont want it to be!
Circlomanen said:
Since multiphase transformers and voice coils are both, ehh, coils, there may be a way to cunningly arrange multiple voice coils to act as a multiphase transformer at the same time, vectorially adding the different signals and generating a field to drive this huge multi-kilowatt speaker. But don't ask me how to do it, got a few other things to do first....!😉
Jan Didden
When we examine topological dimensionality in these circuits,
we have to keep in mind that the reason that all electrons are
identical is that there is only one electron, traversing all of time
and space.
😎
we have to keep in mind that the reason that all electrons are
identical is that there is only one electron, traversing all of time
and space.
😎
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