TangBand W4-657SC Project

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I bought recently TangBand W4-657SC drivers and 3 pcs of 1000x200x18mm glued pine board and I'm starting to build my first DIY speakers. I was inspired to start this project after listening fullrange Gradient Preludes and my PC got Logitech Z-2200 speakers which are TangBand W3-series. Those sound great to me so why not start your own speaker project. :)

The speakers are planned to be used as a second stereo set in kitchen/terrace/sauna/bedroom. Music source is iPod touch and amplifier is Harman/Kardon HK 3370.

The box itself is planned to be sized (WxHxD) outside 150x240x236mm and inside 114x204x200mm. After sawing there should be 240x150mm 4pcs, 240x200mm 4pcs and 114x200mm 4pcs. Volume of box is planned 4,65 Litre (acoustic volume 4 Litre). The box will be bass reflex tuned to 70 Hz and will have 45mm reflex port at length of 200mm.

I have used WinISD Pro to verify my plans. Couple of points which i found out is that:
1. Low frequency extension will be -3dB @ 81Hz and -6dB @ 67Hz
2. Max listening power will be 15W which will produce 101dB@1 meter and 92dB@3 meter. The cone excursion will be out of limits if more power is used.
3. Frequencies below 60 Hz should be filtered out. So I planned to use a high pass filter.
 
The plans for high pass filter is to use 3 or 4 pcs of Intertechnik Audyn-Cap ELKO glatt bipolar 100 MF/35 VAC 5%. 300MF or 400MF connected in series to plus in the speaker.

Filters will be 300MF(-3dB@66Hz) or 400MF(-3dB@50Hz) and 6dB per octave.

The low frequency extension of the speakers will be affected by the filters, but because of impedance rising to max 60 ohms it won't be so bad.

What troubles me is that capacitors are rated only 35 VAC. In theory short term voltage could rise over that when impedance is 60 ohms. I could have bought 400 VAC capacitors but the price would have been 6 times more! :headbash:
 
>>> The box will be bass reflex tuned to 70 Hz...

That's probably just about right. I don't think you will need to use a hi pass filter because the speaker will drop off naturally. But if you need more volume i would recommend adding a powered subwoofer and (maybe) stuffing the port to make the speaker a sealed box. You can also run the speakers thru the powered sub which will 'filter out' the bass but i prefer to run them straight from the power amp because it sounds better to me. Also, you might want to consider a tweeter. I've added tweeters on the back so not to spoil the full range look.

TangBand W4-1320 4" Bamboo full range driver

My project uses the tb 4" bamboo driver but i would imagine there are similarities between these speakers especially regarding their bass tuning and limitations.
 
>>> The box will be bass reflex tuned to 70 Hz...

That's probably just about right. I don't think you will need to use a hi pass filter because the speaker will drop off naturally. But if you need more volume i would recommend adding a powered subwoofer and (maybe) stuffing the port to make the speaker a sealed box. You can also run the speakers thru the powered sub which will 'filter out' the bass but i prefer to run them straight from the power amp because it sounds better to me. Also, you might want to consider a tweeter. I've added tweeters on the back so not to spoil the full range look.

TangBand W4-1320 4" Bamboo full range driver

My project uses the tb 4" bamboo driver but i would imagine there are similarities between these speakers especially regarding their bass tuning and limitations.

You got me intrested in tweeters! :) Allthough the speaker is not finished I have made plans to add TangBand 28-847S at top of box. Here is the "plan B" crossover circuit for it. DIYAudioAndVideo.com has great tutorial about crossover designing. I'll probably get my speakers finished next weekend so after that I'll see if "plan B" is set to go.

C1 = 7.95 uF (2500 Hz highpass 1st Order Butterworth)
L1 = 0.51 mH (2500 Hz lowpass 1st Order Butterworth)
R1 = 1.65 Ohms (LPad 2 dB)
R2 = 30.9 Ohms (LPad 2 dB)
C2 = 400 uF (50 Hz highpass 1st Order Butterworth)
 

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Two weekends spent building the speakers. Well maybe next weekend those will be ready.

I found a second option for tweeter TB 25-1719S. Good response all the way to 30kHz! Example of the crossover components can be seen on Standbox BPA CerAl 4.1

Maybe it's better select proven build of components than start building the crossover by yourself. Especially getting the right specs for components can be tricky.

I'm not sure wheter to go with 2-way system or stick with FR. Maybe I'll figure it out after carefull listening sessions with speakers. :)
 
Here is couple of pictures of my TangBand W4-657SC Project. It's now finished! :):):)
 

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Short listening test revealed that everything works ok and sound is ok. I couldn't hear any problems in upper range and lower range works ok. There is actual bass coming from the speakers. Subwoofer with these would be nice :) Couple of pics from my test session :)
 

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No, don't!

Start running now and you still have a chance. For *** sake stop now while you like the effect but are not fully addicted.

You don't want to end up like me and have to keep buying larger houses to keep your stuff in. :eek:

Cheers, nice speakers. A little on the small side but nothing a couple of 15" woofers can't fix. ;)


dude, by the time someone's a posting member of any of these forums (or attends more than one "geek-fest") , I think it's fair to say "abandon hope ye who enter here" or some such like
 
LOL. Now I'm dreaming of having Dallas II. :D I have no idea what so ever what kind sound would that produce, but it looks amazing and BIG.

Maybe not build it myself...buy it ready made or make a deal with someone to build it for me. This is a long term dream. I have no chance to invest right now. Maybe later on :)
 
those look really good. i've also done a W4-657 project, based on the "3CR-Ti" project on the parts express website (i do most of my posting over at the PE board). If you have extra scrap material, you might want to experiment with the 3-chamber reflex design, it helps get a little more extension while controlling excursion. i'd be interested to hear any comparisons of how the woofer performs in each type, (though i'd guess the 2-way is clearly a little better overall)

The 3CR-AL's - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video, and Electronics Customer Discussion Forum From Parts-Express.com

i gave these as a gift so i don't have them to do any more testing, but they've gotten good feedback. hope you like yours as much.
 
I just yesterday connected TangBands to main hifisystem and did a comparison against Aurelia Magenta speakers as a reference. There was slight lack of upper range. Otherwise upper range was ok. Lower range was ok also. There was good signs of the benefits of FR against 2-way in guitar sounds etc.. I got a little bit of listening fatigue from several hours of testing TB's. I only got 50Hz high pass filter in TB's, so there is no notch filter here. I'm pretty happy how these cheap W4-657SC's turned out to be. Maybe I just keep my DIY speakers as a FR. No messing with tweeters and crossovers here. :) If someone is intrested in similar TB-projects have look at the bamboo drivers those should have better upper range. If one wants dynamic driver then these W4-657SC's are a good choice.:)

Listening test (Based on - A Beginner’s Guide to Good Audio):
Clarity: 4- / 5
Resolution: 4 / 5
Soundstage: 4- /5
Speed: 4½ / 5
Bass: 3+ / 5

Here is my main 2.0 hifisystem:
TV: Sony KDL-40W5500
MP3-player: iPod Touch 32Gb
Blu-ray-player: Sony BDP-S360
Digibox: Topfield 5100PVRc
CD-player: HD 980
Tuner: TU 980
Integrated amplifier: HK 980
DAC: Mini PCM1793 DAC

Primary speakers: Aurelia Magenta

Secondary speakers: TangBand W4-657SC
Subwoofer: Velodyne SPL-1200 MK2

RCA-cables: Clicktronic HC40

Toslink-cables: Clicktronic HC302
HDMI-cables: Wentronic MMK 625 G
Speaker-cables: Qed Silver Anniversary-XT
Speakerstands: Atacama Nexus 7S
 

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Here is couple of pictures of my TangBand W4-657SC Project. It's now finished! :):):)

Very nice job Veke76 :)

I'm so impressed with the W4-657 in a double bass reflex box that I've taken a bold step and put together a complete kit.

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


The cabinet panels are CNC machined 18mm MDF with slots and rebates for accurate assembly.

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


I've posted full details on my site here:

https://sites.google.com/site/stevesstuffproject/dbr100kit
 
Those 2- and 3-chamber designs are very intresting.:) But I don't how to simulate those with WinISD.

Anyway here is my measurements of the speakers. Due to some serious acoustical problems in my room there are numerous hills in the graph. So it's hard to say how low the TB goes. Simulated F3 point was 82 Hz and considering the room gain...well who knows...:rolleyes:

It's not easy to find decent apartment with good acoustics. All three places where I used to live had also terrible acoustics. I own this apartment so I'm not considering to relocate. I have a spare bedroom which I could use for this purpose. It's symmetrical and squared space. There is a big window at end of the room. It's worth considering this option.
 

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I wouldn't worry too much about the peaks and dips in the graph. What's important is the sound or the 'voice' of the speaker. The W4-657 has a very clean, natural and well-balanced sound to my ears, after taming the top end with a small value inductor.

Other 4" (100mm) full range drivers I've tried have sounded quite nasty at the top end and filters haven't improved them.

At the moment I'm unable to take measurements on the double bass reflex box but what I can say is that it's good for 40Hz and I can just about hear 15K which is probably the limit of my hearing (senior citizen ears) :)

Simulating a 2 or 3 chamber box is a problem and I don't know how it can be done with WinISD, if at all.

Regards,
Steve
 
Hi,

I built a similar FR speaker similar to yours with two exceptions, I used a different FR driver and I sealed my enclosure. I then add a sub-woofer it sounded very good.

I like to suggest that you plug the speakers' vents and add a sub-woofer they would sound very different for the better.
 
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