You could also consider the TL1101 in your comparison.
It has a higher sensitivity than the TL1102, and a much smaller xmax
The MMS of the 1201 is obviously a typo: it is 60g and not 6g, as is the Re of the TM1201H (something like 10.8ohms I think, I will measure it)
I have the response and distortion graphs of the 1102 and 1201 at home, I will try to post them.
I would be interested if someone had them for the 1101.
It has a higher sensitivity than the TL1102, and a much smaller xmax
The MMS of the 1201 is obviously a typo: it is 60g and not 6g, as is the Re of the TM1201H (something like 10.8ohms I think, I will measure it)
I have the response and distortion graphs of the 1102 and 1201 at home, I will try to post them.
I would be interested if someone had them for the 1101.
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I think the TM-1201 is meant to be used as a mid. You will definitely need another bass driver below it. Perhaps good down to 300Hz or so.
Here are the graphs from the TL1102 brochure.
Distortion is very low.
You can see a dip in the response around 700Hz. This is classic (cone resonance) and can be seen in almost any driver. I have seen other measurements of this driver that confirm this dip. In fact the fact that you can see it so clearly is the sign of a well behaved driver (similar reasoning to the on-axis dip you can see in perfectly executed OS waveguides: nothing to blur the theoretical behavior).
I don't think it is really audible, and seems quite well dampened.
The second attachment is a graph of the TAD 2251 speaker. The dip has been taken care of in the crossover.
Distortion is very low.
You can see a dip in the response around 700Hz. This is classic (cone resonance) and can be seen in almost any driver. I have seen other measurements of this driver that confirm this dip. In fact the fact that you can see it so clearly is the sign of a well behaved driver (similar reasoning to the on-axis dip you can see in perfectly executed OS waveguides: nothing to blur the theoretical behavior).
I don't think it is really audible, and seems quite well dampened.
The second attachment is a graph of the TAD 2251 speaker. The dip has been taken care of in the crossover.
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Here are the measurements from the TM1201H brochure.
Here you can the that the response is very flat, with no resonance, thanks to the cone material. The cone is quite heavy for a midwoofer (60g), but the motor is so powerfull that it manages to obtain a 100dB sensitivity.
Westlake uses this driver down to 200Hz in the SM-1
Here you can the that the response is very flat, with no resonance, thanks to the cone material. The cone is quite heavy for a midwoofer (60g), but the motor is so powerfull that it manages to obtain a 100dB sensitivity.
Westlake uses this driver down to 200Hz in the SM-1
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According to the graphs, it seems like the TM-1201H is better than the TL-1102 for midbass. However, this doesn't mean that the TM-1201H has better sound.
I thought that the TL-1102 is better because it has the Alnico magnet and paper cone.
Anyone listened to these drivers and would like to share the experiences?
I thought that the TL-1102 is better because it has the Alnico magnet and paper cone.
Anyone listened to these drivers and would like to share the experiences?
I found this very interesting website that cover several important topics including driver cone material.
Mother of Tone -The Mother of Tone
Mother of Tone -The Mother of Tone
In relation to this note that the VC is covered by dust caps in most drivers.
Also poly-graphite is an excellent cone material. (..both objectively and subjectively.)
I have not, but I also did consider the TM-1201H for midrange duty at some stage. The advice that I got from various sources in the know was that the TM-1201H surpassed the paper cone by a handy margin in terms of midrange quality.
IIRC Nelson Pass called it a "miraculous driver"
Hennie, thanks for the info.
I find Nelson Pass' comment to be biased because he had those drivers for sale.
I find Nelson Pass' comment to be biased because he had those drivers for sale.
I've listened to TL-1102 and TM-1201, but they are in very different setups and applications.
TL-1102 is the midbass of a small 2-way; while TM-1201 is a waveguide loaded midrange in a big 3-way. They are both excellent drivers, but given the huge differences in systems, spaces... etc, I don't think I can compare them directly.
If used above 200Hz, I'd like to choose TM-1201 for it's much higher sensitivity. TL-1102 can play down to 30-some in proper cab in room, which is a somewhat wasted performance if served as midbass only. And because of this, some other performances are sacrificed.
I don't know much about cones. But the cone of TM-1201 is very interesting. Tapping it gently and you'd hear a slightly muffled metallic sound. It's a feel of very light and stiff material. (Oh well, 60g is not very light for its size, but it just gives a sense of mighty strong and fast - just like how it sounds... )
A little bit OT, the cone of Lowthers is another type of 'fast-feeling'. By touch and look, the paper seems very dense and stiff, yet also very thin. A friend describes the quality is very much like the paper of new dollar bill. Maybe it could be an excellent material for making a cone. LOL...
TL-1102 is the midbass of a small 2-way; while TM-1201 is a waveguide loaded midrange in a big 3-way. They are both excellent drivers, but given the huge differences in systems, spaces... etc, I don't think I can compare them directly.
If used above 200Hz, I'd like to choose TM-1201 for it's much higher sensitivity. TL-1102 can play down to 30-some in proper cab in room, which is a somewhat wasted performance if served as midbass only. And because of this, some other performances are sacrificed.
I don't know much about cones. But the cone of TM-1201 is very interesting. Tapping it gently and you'd hear a slightly muffled metallic sound. It's a feel of very light and stiff material. (Oh well, 60g is not very light for its size, but it just gives a sense of mighty strong and fast - just like how it sounds... )
A little bit OT, the cone of Lowthers is another type of 'fast-feeling'. By touch and look, the paper seems very dense and stiff, yet also very thin. A friend describes the quality is very much like the paper of new dollar bill. Maybe it could be an excellent material for making a cone. LOL...
I must admit the TM-1201H still intrigues me, perhaps because it is not the usual paper cone and there was some hype regarding the cone material. I also know some people rated old Pioneer domestic speakers using this cone material highly. Perhaps I will build a speaker using the TM-1201H one day just to hear for myself.
The low Qts does seem to make it a good candidate for horn loading, although I considered using it in a sealed enclosure from 300Hz to just over 1kHz in combination with a waveguide.
The low Qts does seem to make it a good candidate for horn loading, although I considered using it in a sealed enclosure from 300Hz to just over 1kHz in combination with a waveguide.
There is an AES paper by TAD about this cone material:
AES E-Library: Polymer-Graphite Composite Loudspeaker Diaphragm
Anybody with an AES subscription?...
CLS, do you have experience with the TL1101H?
AES E-Library: Polymer-Graphite Composite Loudspeaker Diaphragm
Anybody with an AES subscription?...
CLS, do you have experience with the TL1101H?
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