Supravox 165 - ALNICO vs EXC on a OB?
- Thread starter vessk0
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Nice driver choice, I would like to hear those. I'm very familiar with the 285GMF for bass on OB, using a pair at the moment.
It's odd that unlike the 215 and 285 units, the alnico 165 is a relatively high Qts suitable for OB. So there isn't a lot to choose between the two options, 2000 or EXC. The EXC one can give you a slightly lower Qt towards 0.6 when used at 10V, which I would prefer for transients/dynamics over the 0.78 of the 2000 one. You also get a smidge more efficiency, but it's not much. The downside of the EXC ones is really just the provision ( and wires ) for a quiet DC supply.
It's odd that unlike the 215 and 285 units, the alnico 165 is a relatively high Qts suitable for OB. So there isn't a lot to choose between the two options, 2000 or EXC. The EXC one can give you a slightly lower Qt towards 0.6 when used at 10V, which I would prefer for transients/dynamics over the 0.78 of the 2000 one. You also get a smidge more efficiency, but it's not much. The downside of the EXC ones is really just the provision ( and wires ) for a quiet DC supply.
They are practically the same price and if the el.magnet doesn't have any downsides besides the additional power supply, I will go for it!
I'm in the same boat with you, I prefer non-resonant systems, so the lower the Q, the better! I plan to use a battery for the DC supply. From what I can see the stronger magnetism can give you a cleaner CSD too!
I'm in the same boat with you, I prefer non-resonant systems, so the lower the Q, the better! I plan to use a battery for the DC supply. From what I can see the stronger magnetism can give you a cleaner CSD too!
Nice to hear you have 285gmf on OB.
Question:
I am using Supravox 215rtf64 on my 18inch wide baffle (no wings) with raal 70-20xr for the tweeter. They AMAZING ...
My 15in bass driver is AE Dipole 15 and they very good but low efficiency. They sound like subwoofer and they go down to 20 hz in room (9.5'x12' room).
But I still use 2 x Rel G1 subwoofers because they do better and I have them lol so ... ;-)
I tried CIare NDH15-3 woofers 15inch qts 0.3 and I find they far better suited because they match better the supravox dynamic and personnality. AE are relax everywhere and they real clean clean clean. They just lack some energy to match those 215's personnality.
While Ciare 15-3 is not produce anymore I am looking toward 285GMF.
Do you think is a good choice while I set my rel's crossover at 45hz (12db/octave). I can adjust the crossover point a little higher if needed.
Another choice will be 400gmf but they a lot slower than 285gmf from what I read. While the low's are going to be played with my subs what is your bet ?
Question:
I am using Supravox 215rtf64 on my 18inch wide baffle (no wings) with raal 70-20xr for the tweeter. They AMAZING ...
My 15in bass driver is AE Dipole 15 and they very good but low efficiency. They sound like subwoofer and they go down to 20 hz in room (9.5'x12' room).
But I still use 2 x Rel G1 subwoofers because they do better and I have them lol so ... ;-)
I tried CIare NDH15-3 woofers 15inch qts 0.3 and I find they far better suited because they match better the supravox dynamic and personnality. AE are relax everywhere and they real clean clean clean. They just lack some energy to match those 215's personnality.
While Ciare 15-3 is not produce anymore I am looking toward 285GMF.
Do you think is a good choice while I set my rel's crossover at 45hz (12db/octave). I can adjust the crossover point a little higher if needed.
Another choice will be 400gmf but they a lot slower than 285gmf from what I read. While the low's are going to be played with my subs what is your bet ?
Sorry I'll get back to you more tomorrow, had no time today. I will say that I don't like low Q bass drivers with EQ , I use the 285GMF on a baffle with slanted side-wings, but the Supravox is in a series crossover with a pair of FX120's for mids, the baffle and circuit comes from a design with AER Mk.1's and 285GMF that was done many years ago by one of our UK guys, superb passive combination for use with valve amplifiers of 5 to 20Wpc.
I like bass drivers with low power handling and low Rms ( not RMS ) . If I had an ultimate choice of bass driver for OB it would be the 400 EXC .
I like bass drivers with low power handling and low Rms ( not RMS ) . If I had an ultimate choice of bass driver for OB it would be the 400 EXC .
Hi again, I've listened extensively the GMF and Alnico versions.
The Alnico version had a very weak magnet (2.3BL) with more than 1Q in comparison to my GMF pair with 0.5Q.
The Alnico clearly won the subjective tests and listening. It is a true full-range driver with all the highs you want.
The GMF doesn't have enough highs and it sounds like a midrange driver (ironically Supravox names it as a "bass medium" driver).
The GMF also has a cold and aggressive upper-midrange which ruins the overall nice neutral timbre.
165-2000 has better tonality with naturally warmer timbre.
165-2000 has better microdynamics and better vocal expressions - probably the lower MMS is the answer but I'm not sure.
NOW, to the real question.
I want to buy the EXC version to get the better moving mass from 165-2000 and the stronger magnet for overall better CSD and Impulse behaviour.
Any disadvantages? (I will probably run them on batteries)
The Alnico version had a very weak magnet (2.3BL) with more than 1Q in comparison to my GMF pair with 0.5Q.
The Alnico clearly won the subjective tests and listening. It is a true full-range driver with all the highs you want.
The GMF doesn't have enough highs and it sounds like a midrange driver (ironically Supravox names it as a "bass medium" driver).
The GMF also has a cold and aggressive upper-midrange which ruins the overall nice neutral timbre.
165-2000 has better tonality with naturally warmer timbre.
165-2000 has better microdynamics and better vocal expressions - probably the lower MMS is the answer but I'm not sure.
NOW, to the real question.
I want to buy the EXC version to get the better moving mass from 165-2000 and the stronger magnet for overall better CSD and Impulse behaviour.
Any disadvantages? (I will probably run them on batteries)
Hi Vess,
if you don´t mind the extra cables and efforts, I would suggest to go with the fieldcoil motor. And yes, batteries are a good choice too.
I have a french fullrange driver as well, and had the opportunity to listen to the same driver, one with permanent magnet, one with fieldcoil motor, at the manufacturer´s.
After comparison, I choose the latter, despite higher price.
Later, I found Li-Ion batteries to be better than simple car batteries.
All the best
Mattes
if you don´t mind the extra cables and efforts, I would suggest to go with the fieldcoil motor. And yes, batteries are a good choice too.
I have a french fullrange driver as well, and had the opportunity to listen to the same driver, one with permanent magnet, one with fieldcoil motor, at the manufacturer´s.
After comparison, I choose the latter, despite higher price.
Later, I found Li-Ion batteries to be better than simple car batteries.
All the best
Mattes
I had this conundrum with choosing between the 165-2000 and 165EXC, in the end for simplicity I went with the AlNiCo version.
I am very happy with them, being used full range with no filters, certainly I don't feel there is any need for a tweeter to take over on top. Vocal presentation is something that is a real advantage, even compared to something like the KEF 201/2 I had before, just lacked something in the midrange.
I am very happy with them, being used full range with no filters, certainly I don't feel there is any need for a tweeter to take over on top. Vocal presentation is something that is a real advantage, even compared to something like the KEF 201/2 I had before, just lacked something in the midrange.
Hello,
I am interested in 165EXC.
Curious whether it is ok to run from 100Hz upward in a small baffle 45 cm wide and 60 cm high. Below 100Hz will be handle by subwoofer.
In case this small speaker can run from 100Hz upward, what is benefit to use 15 inch fullrange (Lii Audio F15) in same baffle size?
Thank you.
I am interested in 165EXC.
Curious whether it is ok to run from 100Hz upward in a small baffle 45 cm wide and 60 cm high. Below 100Hz will be handle by subwoofer.
In case this small speaker can run from 100Hz upward, what is benefit to use 15 inch fullrange (Lii Audio F15) in same baffle size?
Thank you.