Hey everyone,
I moved back into my childhood home recently and I'm also getting back into audio after being away from it for a few years. My late father made some built-in cabinets with a fireplace in the living room as seen in the attached photo. Since my old man built them I don't want to alter them too much, but the cabinets and the position of the couch, which really can't go anywhere else, make speaker placement difficult.
As you can see in the photo, there are two large cupboards on both ends of the built-ins. The space inside is about 38" wide, 35" high, and 20" deep. So I've been wondering if I could put some speakers inside those cabinets, rather than on the floor in front like I'm doing now. I have a pair of JBL L166s now that I may experiment with, but I'm wondering if something even bigger might make better use of the space available.
I have a chance to buy some Altec Lansing 604-8k speakers in 620 cabinets at a reasonable price and I'm wondering if they might work. The 620 cabinets are too tall, but they would fit if I remove some trim around the cupboard doors. I'm also a pretty good woodworker and could easily build some smaller cabinets that would slide into the space available. I could replace the doors with custom grills too.
Does this sound like a good idea, or am I crazy for even thinking about it?
Any feedback would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Andy
A
I moved back into my childhood home recently and I'm also getting back into audio after being away from it for a few years. My late father made some built-in cabinets with a fireplace in the living room as seen in the attached photo. Since my old man built them I don't want to alter them too much, but the cabinets and the position of the couch, which really can't go anywhere else, make speaker placement difficult.
As you can see in the photo, there are two large cupboards on both ends of the built-ins. The space inside is about 38" wide, 35" high, and 20" deep. So I've been wondering if I could put some speakers inside those cabinets, rather than on the floor in front like I'm doing now. I have a pair of JBL L166s now that I may experiment with, but I'm wondering if something even bigger might make better use of the space available.
I have a chance to buy some Altec Lansing 604-8k speakers in 620 cabinets at a reasonable price and I'm wondering if they might work. The 620 cabinets are too tall, but they would fit if I remove some trim around the cupboard doors. I'm also a pretty good woodworker and could easily build some smaller cabinets that would slide into the space available. I could replace the doors with custom grills too.
Does this sound like a good idea, or am I crazy for even thinking about it?
Any feedback would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Andy
A
I have been pondering a very similar project for our livingroom with Altec 414 / horn combo. There are comprises you have to live with by not having optimal box size, but it still could be enjoyable.
I would look at just putting a removable "half cabinet" designed to fit into the space. Model the box volume and create a tuned alignment with the volume with the vent tuned to probably 35 or so (you'd be looking for a box-model f6 around 35 probably, with room gain making plentiful bass). Basically just a slot vent, driver, and front panel with some interior lips you can do some blind fastening on- save as much of the original construction as you can, and just put a panel over the hole with the right specs to use the existing 5 walled enclosure. Basically make it reversible but build it in, this is what a studio ideally would do. Put the 604s as high as they'll fit and you'll be just ducky from a cabinet perspective.
Thanks for the quick replies.
badman, some of what you said about tuning went over my head, but if I'm understanding you correctly you're saying I could just build a front baffle that would fill the existing cabinet space and screw it in place. If that's correct this might be even easier than I expected.
badman, some of what you said about tuning went over my head, but if I'm understanding you correctly you're saying I could just build a front baffle that would fill the existing cabinet space and screw it in place. If that's correct this might be even easier than I expected.
If you do that you won't have significant baffle step issues to contend with which is good for a learning design.
Andy,
I would be tempted to place your existing speakers horizontally on the top of the cabinets just to see what they will sound like. Could be done in a minute or two just to test your theory. Of course, tweeter orientation would be an issue if anything of a permanent nature were to be done.
If music emanating from that part of the room works for you, then a 604-based system might be just the ticket.
Best, Fred
I would be tempted to place your existing speakers horizontally on the top of the cabinets just to see what they will sound like. Could be done in a minute or two just to test your theory. Of course, tweeter orientation would be an issue if anything of a permanent nature were to be done.
If music emanating from that part of the room works for you, then a 604-based system might be just the ticket.
Best, Fred
Thanks for the suggestion Fred. The top of the built-in cabinets is above ear level, so the speakers would pretty high up there, but might be worth a try to see how it sounds with speakers tilted down.
I've also found a pair of Tannoy Monitor Gold 12 Inch Speakers (no cabinets) for less than the Altecs. Any thoughts on whether those might work with a baffle built in to the cabinets?
I've also found a pair of Tannoy Monitor Gold 12 Inch Speakers (no cabinets) for less than the Altecs. Any thoughts on whether those might work with a baffle built in to the cabinets?
Hey Andy,
If laid horizontally, as Fred has suggested, or even inverted for that matter, the height appears pretty good in my estimation for the existing speakers.
That said, I'm an Altec guy so I may try and steer you otherwise. In the meantime try both sideways and upside down and report back.
Badman's idea of a removable modular system (I think that's what he was saying) is good also. I think it's what you were suggesting also, yes? It allows you to refill the left cabinet with the original materials when plans change, and it gives you access to the back panel in the right opening, whatever it is.
If laid horizontally, as Fred has suggested, or even inverted for that matter, the height appears pretty good in my estimation for the existing speakers.
That said, I'm an Altec guy so I may try and steer you otherwise. In the meantime try both sideways and upside down and report back.
Badman's idea of a removable modular system (I think that's what he was saying) is good also. I think it's what you were suggesting also, yes? It allows you to refill the left cabinet with the original materials when plans change, and it gives you access to the back panel in the right opening, whatever it is.
You are also blessed with moving back into your childhood home, so do it right. You have a chance that few of us get.
Good morning, Andy.
Regarding the Tannoys vs. the Altecs, both being desirable speakers, that choice would have to be yours to make. As far as using either type driver in a system that you build, they both should work equally well providing the cabinet specs would be correct for the driver being implemented.
I do have some reservations though. Decorative storage cabinets are not generally built to be speaker cabinets. The materials are usually thinner and corner bracing is minimal. Speaker enclosures have to meet higher standards. They are built with thicker materials and carefully braced to prevent resonances and vibrations which would affect the overall sound of your system. With large, powerful drivers like the 604s, those existing cabinets could carry on a bit when producing strong bass notes.
That being said, the inner panels could be strengthened and damped by laminating them with a non-resonant (or less resonant) material using a non-hardening interface. The inner and outer panels would resonate in opposition to each other. The downside would be the loss of interior volume.
Sorry for the long post but just tossing around a few ideas to help you make your decision.
Best, Fred
Regarding the Tannoys vs. the Altecs, both being desirable speakers, that choice would have to be yours to make. As far as using either type driver in a system that you build, they both should work equally well providing the cabinet specs would be correct for the driver being implemented.
I do have some reservations though. Decorative storage cabinets are not generally built to be speaker cabinets. The materials are usually thinner and corner bracing is minimal. Speaker enclosures have to meet higher standards. They are built with thicker materials and carefully braced to prevent resonances and vibrations which would affect the overall sound of your system. With large, powerful drivers like the 604s, those existing cabinets could carry on a bit when producing strong bass notes.
That being said, the inner panels could be strengthened and damped by laminating them with a non-resonant (or less resonant) material using a non-hardening interface. The inner and outer panels would resonate in opposition to each other. The downside would be the loss of interior volume.
Sorry for the long post but just tossing around a few ideas to help you make your decision.
Best, Fred
Yes, I feel very fortunate to be able to move back to the old home. Sometimes it feels like a mixed blessing though, mostly because I'm a sentimental fool, lol. Everything in this house has a memory attached to it and I've been struggling a bit to make the changes necessary to make it feel like my own. When we were kids, my brother and I referred to the living room as the "museum" because it was for company and we weren't allowed in there, lol. It felt weird just putting a TV above the fireplace, so getting the living room setup with a nice stereo system as well will be a big step for me. There is nothing inside those cabinets that can't be removed or that I need access to. There is an internet modem at the back of the right cabinet, but I've been planning on relocating that anyway.
Fred... Thanks for the suggestions. I didn't think building speakers into the existing cabinets was a good idea and was initially looking for some large speaker cabinets that could be inserted into the existing space and isolated from the surrounding built-ins. But then badman's suggestion to "just put a panel over the hole with the right specs to use the existing 5 walled enclosure" got me thinking that might be an easier option, at least to start testing my ideas without investing a lot into time and materials.
The Tannoy's I found are just the bare speakers with the xovers, and the Altecs come complete with the 620 cabinets, but at a higher price. I didn't think I would be able to use the Altec cabinets anyway, so that's way I started looking for bare speakers, and dual concentrics seem like the best choice for this application.
Thanks again for all the feedback,
Andy
As an Altec guy do you have any suggestions for evaluating a set of 604-8Ks if I can't have a proper audition?
I went to look at them the other night and the seller was having problems with his amp and only one speaker was working when I got there. He was swapping cables and changing connections and eventually got the other speaker working, but I don't remember them both working at the same time while I was there. He also said his Marantz amp was in the shop, and was using a cheap solid state amp. I heard some sounds coming out of the speakers, but nothing that made me want to open my wallet. So it definitely wasn't a great first impression.
The 620 cabinets are also rough and someone has enlarged the ports in the past, so I'm essentially buying them for parts. Seller has messaged and said he has them both working now, but I'm not expecting to hear any of the magical sounds I've been reading about with his setup. I just want to make sure there are no defects in the drivers or crossovers.
So I've been experimenting a bit with speaker placement. I didn’t put them on top of the cabinets, because I have some gear up there now. I did put the JBLs inside the cabinets though, both horizontally and vertically, but I think they sounded worse than they did outside. The bass definitely seemed thinner and the balance was off.
I also have some Celestion 332s and they sound really good in the cabinets as pictured. There was no balance problem and the bass is good, even though one is sitting on a plywood shelf and the other on a cheap plastic table. With more substantial stands or platforms I would imagine the sound could be even better.
I'm still on the fence about the Altecs, but would really like to give them a try and I know the odds of finding another reasonably priced pair locally are slim to nil. I also know my current Yamaha receivers would not be suitable for them, so then I'd be going down the tube amp rabbit hole trying to find something affordable to pair them with.
Decisions, decisions...
Edit: I know if I leave speakers inside cabinets I'll probably have to find another place for turntables, amps, etc. Too much vibration.
I also have some Celestion 332s and they sound really good in the cabinets as pictured. There was no balance problem and the bass is good, even though one is sitting on a plywood shelf and the other on a cheap plastic table. With more substantial stands or platforms I would imagine the sound could be even better.
I'm still on the fence about the Altecs, but would really like to give them a try and I know the odds of finding another reasonably priced pair locally are slim to nil. I also know my current Yamaha receivers would not be suitable for them, so then I'd be going down the tube amp rabbit hole trying to find something affordable to pair them with.
Decisions, decisions...
Edit: I know if I leave speakers inside cabinets I'll probably have to find another place for turntables, amps, etc. Too much vibration.
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FWIW, the 604 in open back boxes and separate sub system/ea. on the floor seems the best option overall with the XO based on mean of the sub's, 604's acoustic center's distance.
Soffit-mounted 604s were once the de facto standard in recording studios everywhere in the shape of Urei 809, 813 and 815 monitors.
So popular that Tannoy brought out the FSM-U which used the external Urei 813 size to make swapping easier. 809s use just the 604, these are 813 and 815 utilized 2 extra woofers.
So popular that Tannoy brought out the FSM-U which used the external Urei 813 size to make swapping easier. 809s use just the 604, these are 813 and 815 utilized 2 extra woofers.
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Certainly would be my choice, but have found that the general public is very paranoid about having such big/heavy things overhead even on sturdy shelves and don't like the industrial look of large chains/whatever suspension cables, though have had some luck with blending in some small driver TLs tucked up hard in the horizontal ceiling/wall and vertical ceiling/wall corners.
Cannot add impression of the 604K. It is a ceramic motor and you hear both sides of the story because of that. I have the 8H’s which are the last of the Alnico units so I cannot comment one way or another. What I can say is that if you like the Altec sound, you will likely be very happy.
What Charles shows above is somewhat similar to what is next for me. I will call it the Cally Screamer. (GM will get that)
The 604 topped with a AC ribbon and with dual 15” PA bass drivers all in one cabinet and a single powered CSS 15” subwoofer.
I say you go big and make use of the space, best you can.
The 604 topped with a AC ribbon and with dual 15” PA bass drivers all in one cabinet and a single powered CSS 15” subwoofer.
I say you go big and make use of the space, best you can.
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Was looking into the different Urei models and the 811s would fit perfectly into my cabinets without any modifications. Hmmm, something else to ponder for sure.
Hi everyone. It's been awhile, and I didn't get those speakers I was looking at last year, but I got lucky today and picked up a pair of Altec 604-8Gs for a pretty good price. So I'd like to put some more thought into installing them into the built-in cabinets in my livingroom, but I'm not sure where to start with the design badman described above. Any suggestions or resources for determining the vent size?
Here's some more details about the size of the cabinets. The space inside each cabinet is about 47" wide, 41" high, and 21" deep. That's about 23.5 ft³. The openings with the doors removed is 38" wide and 35" high.
Here's a pic of the speakers. The one on the right needs a Recone Kit, but otherwise they seem to be working ok (after I repaired one broken lead on a HF diaphragm).
Thanks for any advice,
Andy
