Hello,
Does anyone know a good subwoofer for a 3 cu-ft sealed box? I will use it for movies and music concerts. I have a KG5230 amplifier and this speaker will be a replacement for a old NHT1259 that is broken.
Does anyone know a good subwoofer for a 3 cu-ft sealed box? I will use it for movies and music concerts. I have a KG5230 amplifier and this speaker will be a replacement for a old NHT1259 that is broken.
Hi Guijs,
I'm not sure just what your design goals are (cost, size, freq resp...etc), so I'll just mention the two subs that I'd buy tomorrow if I was building another sub. I think my first choice would be the "Alpine R series" driver. If I didn't already have two JL Audio subs in my box for a four 10 project that I just finished, I would definitely have used these.
I like them because they come so highly recommended first off. They will take a ton of punishment, they're focused on "sound quality", they've also got 20mm of linear X-max and don't mind being forced downward into low 20's. The link that I'll give you is for the ten inch, but they'll all perform the exact same way, so just look at the size that you're interested in. I like the "Dual" 4 ohm voice coil for it's flexibility, but again, I don't know what your application requirements are. Here's that link: Alpine SWR-10D4 (swr10d4) 10" Dual 4-Ohm Type-R Series Car Subwoofer
Then, there's the one that I use myself. It's the JL Audio "10W6-v2" , again, you choose the size. I like these for the same reasons that I like the Alpine R series; It's the proven workhorse. Here's that link: Car Audio - Subwoofer Drivers - Discontinued - W6v2 (discontinued to make room for version 3 "W6-v3", but still available). Btw, you said that the enclosure that your planning to use is 3 cu ft net? That's quite a lot; enough intern volume to "Double up" on these subs. Both of these drivers require only (approx) .625 net int vol., so you could increase the efficiency, low-end extension...and, lower system impedance simply by using two subs in that box instead of one; that's about 6db of "Free output"!
Now these are both primarily used in mobile audio applications, but they are also recommend for HT, and warrantied for one yr. Hope you find this little bit of info helpful, I only wish I had more insight as to what your project objectives are so I could better assist.
rigtec, cheers
I'm not sure just what your design goals are (cost, size, freq resp...etc), so I'll just mention the two subs that I'd buy tomorrow if I was building another sub. I think my first choice would be the "Alpine R series" driver. If I didn't already have two JL Audio subs in my box for a four 10 project that I just finished, I would definitely have used these.
I like them because they come so highly recommended first off. They will take a ton of punishment, they're focused on "sound quality", they've also got 20mm of linear X-max and don't mind being forced downward into low 20's. The link that I'll give you is for the ten inch, but they'll all perform the exact same way, so just look at the size that you're interested in. I like the "Dual" 4 ohm voice coil for it's flexibility, but again, I don't know what your application requirements are. Here's that link: Alpine SWR-10D4 (swr10d4) 10" Dual 4-Ohm Type-R Series Car Subwoofer
Then, there's the one that I use myself. It's the JL Audio "10W6-v2" , again, you choose the size. I like these for the same reasons that I like the Alpine R series; It's the proven workhorse. Here's that link: Car Audio - Subwoofer Drivers - Discontinued - W6v2 (discontinued to make room for version 3 "W6-v3", but still available). Btw, you said that the enclosure that your planning to use is 3 cu ft net? That's quite a lot; enough intern volume to "Double up" on these subs. Both of these drivers require only (approx) .625 net int vol., so you could increase the efficiency, low-end extension...and, lower system impedance simply by using two subs in that box instead of one; that's about 6db of "Free output"!
Now these are both primarily used in mobile audio applications, but they are also recommend for HT, and warrantied for one yr. Hope you find this little bit of info helpful, I only wish I had more insight as to what your project objectives are so I could better assist.
rigtec, cheers
Hi rigtec,
Thank you for the recommendations. My goal is a 12" sub that will be driven by a 300w amp. I plan to cutoff at 100-150hz. My room is 750 sq-ft without openings. It is big but I don't play that loud.
Cost does not matter right now because I want to see all the options I have. I need a "drop-fit" speaker to use this 3 cu-ft sealed box and the 300w KG5230 amp.
If the speaker requires a smaller box, I can put wood blocks inside of it to lower the volume.
Thank you for the recommendations. My goal is a 12" sub that will be driven by a 300w amp. I plan to cutoff at 100-150hz. My room is 750 sq-ft without openings. It is big but I don't play that loud.
Cost does not matter right now because I want to see all the options I have. I need a "drop-fit" speaker to use this 3 cu-ft sealed box and the 300w KG5230 amp.
If the speaker requires a smaller box, I can put wood blocks inside of it to lower the volume.
Madisound recommended this one: SB Acoustics SB34NRX75-6 The Madisound Speaker Store
It is made for 2.6 cu-ft sealed. I'll search for reviews of it.
It is made for 2.6 cu-ft sealed. I'll search for reviews of it.
Hi Guijs,
Both the drivers that I've suggested are extremely forgiving, and won't mind being in the larger enclosure. The (2) ten sub that I'm using now was once intended to be used as a "bass reflex" alignment, with a total net vol of 2.50 cu ft (1.25 cf per driver; box is "partitioned"), but I "sealed" it, bringing the net volume up to 3.2 cf (1.6 cf per driver).
PS: when you calculate the internal vol of a vented enclosure, you have to subtract the total displacement of the ports (in cf) from your gross figure. But, when you "close-up" those ports, you no longer see them as parts, occupying space so you add that space to your net vol.
Here's the Thiele/small parameters on the jl audio "12W6-v2" below:
Free Air Resonance (Fs) 25.0 Hz
Electrical “Q” (Qes) 0.48
Mechanical “Q” (Qms) 7.1
Total Speaker “Q” (Qts) 0.45
Equivalent Compliance (Vas) 2.82 cu ft / 79.9 L
One-Way Linear Excursion (Xmax)* 0.65 in / 17 mm
Reference Efficiency (no) 0.25%
Efficiency (1 W / 1 m)** 85.9 dB SPL
Effective Piston Area (Sd) 77.8 sq in / 0.0502 sq m
Volume (net int.) 1.25 cu ft / 35.4 L
DC Resistance (Re)*** 6.75 Ω
Here's the Alpine SWR 124D spec sheet; t/s unavailable on that website:
Subwoofer Specifications
Subwoofer Series Type-R
Subwoofer Size 12"
Peak Power Handling 3000 watts
RMS Power Handling 600 watts
Voice Coil(s) Dual
Impedance (Per Voice Coil) 4 ohms
Frequency Response 24 - 200 Hz
Sensitivity 85 dB
Xmax (millimeters) 20 mm
Subwoofer Design Round / Circle
Main Cone Color Dark Gray
Woofer Composition Kevlar Fiber
Woofer Surround Santoprene Rubber
Subwoofer Grille Optional (Accessory required and sold separately)
Alpine KTE-12WG
Re-Cone Kit Available No
Recommended Enclosure Specifications
Recommended Enclosure Type Ported / Sealed
Minimum Sealed Box Volume 0.65 cubic feet
Maximum Sealed Box Volume 1.25 cubic feet
Minimum Ported Box Volume 1.0 cubic feet
Maximum Ported Box Volume 2.0 cubic feet
Top-Mount Depth 6-3/8"
On a scale from 1 to 10, I think these both rank 9+, and for you're particular application/usage, a 10 plus; they'll never use more than a fraction of their potential x-max, or even get hot.
rigtec
rigtec, but you mean that I should use (1) or (2) 12" speakers? I can't cut a second hole to fit two speakers.
I know JL from my car stereo days, they are very good!
I know JL from my car stereo days, they are very good!
You can use just one 12. To determine just how the driver will behave in a box that size though, I would model (simulate) it using a speaker software design program like, winISD or bassbox pro...etc, which can be downloaded (for free) to your computer. I did it with the the "10W6", putting it in a 5 cf box, and the results were most favorable. You're not using much power anyway, so there'd be no "over excursion" issues to be concerned with; just x-over point fine tuning.
rig
Guijs,
The only further concern (for me), might be, the "lack of available power" from the amp. Remember, most subs average around 82-84db of sensitivity @1w/1m (meaning,1 watt fed into an 8 ohm speaker, then measuring it's audible output with a decibel meter, located at only 1 meter away from the cone's center). So if 1 watt fed to the sub gives you 84db, then 300 watts (256 to be accurate) will give you 108db max; "that's not very loud". But, don't plan on using the whole 300 watts from the amp because it won't sound very good at that level (you know...the whole thing about "total harmonic distortion" and "square waves", screwing up the sound and causing the sub's motor to lose control over the cone...blah, blah, blah).
I have always used this as a rule of thumb, "and it works": "No less" than 1.5 decibels of "Headroom" for bass, or "at least"...3db for sub-bass. Three db is equivalent to 100% of the power planned to use; or double, that same amount of power. So for you, 600 watts "might be", a good place to start (only a suggestion). Anyway, it's more healthy for the amp to have enough power to destroy the driver, yet enough control over it's coil, to prevent the amp from doing so; That's Electro-Voice..."The proper care and feeding of pro-sound woofers"...a great read.
Let me know how you're making out Guijs, like to see some pics of your project as it's in development!
rigtec, cheers
The only further concern (for me), might be, the "lack of available power" from the amp. Remember, most subs average around 82-84db of sensitivity @1w/1m (meaning,1 watt fed into an 8 ohm speaker, then measuring it's audible output with a decibel meter, located at only 1 meter away from the cone's center). So if 1 watt fed to the sub gives you 84db, then 300 watts (256 to be accurate) will give you 108db max; "that's not very loud". But, don't plan on using the whole 300 watts from the amp because it won't sound very good at that level (you know...the whole thing about "total harmonic distortion" and "square waves", screwing up the sound and causing the sub's motor to lose control over the cone...blah, blah, blah).
I have always used this as a rule of thumb, "and it works": "No less" than 1.5 decibels of "Headroom" for bass, or "at least"...3db for sub-bass. Three db is equivalent to 100% of the power planned to use; or double, that same amount of power. So for you, 600 watts "might be", a good place to start (only a suggestion). Anyway, it's more healthy for the amp to have enough power to destroy the driver, yet enough control over it's coil, to prevent the amp from doing so; That's Electro-Voice..."The proper care and feeding of pro-sound woofers"...a great read.
Let me know how you're making out Guijs, like to see some pics of your project as it's in development!
rigtec, cheers
Last edited:
I will simulate the three drivers, SB Acoustics, JL and Alpine in WinISD (I did it a lot in the past) and let's see how they will work in this cabinet.
BTW the SB Acoustics SPL is 90db.
Thanks for the help!
BTW the SB Acoustics SPL is 90db.
Thanks for the help!
I have one of these in a 3 cu ft box, sounds amazing, very musical. For home theater I'd use their HO version though.
Dayton Audio RSS315HF-4 12" Reference HF Subwoofer 4 Ohm High Fidelity Reference Series 295-464
Dayton Audio RSS315HF-4 12" Reference HF Subwoofer 4 Ohm High Fidelity Reference Series 295-464
Hi mattmcl,
I just checked out the "Dayton" High fidelity 4 ohm driver that you suggested and it's credentials are "very respectable"! I don't think that I've ever really looked into Dayton Audio products for Pro-audio or Mobile audio applications before, but I liked what you've provided. Who knows, maybe I'll try something new.
rigtec, best to you.
I just checked out the "Dayton" High fidelity 4 ohm driver that you suggested and it's credentials are "very respectable"! I don't think that I've ever really looked into Dayton Audio products for Pro-audio or Mobile audio applications before, but I liked what you've provided. Who knows, maybe I'll try something new.
rigtec, best to you.
Last edited:
Guijs,
Make sure you have the old spec-ed NHT 1259 and not the new MAD1259, they are different.
Below I show graphs for the equivalent of the NHT 1259, Dayton Audio UM12-22 12" Ultimax (#1) and similar SB Acoustics SB34NRX75-6 (#2) in a 85L/3ft³ sealed enclosure. 😀
NHT 1259 replacement?
Home Audio Projects using the NHT1259 Driver
Madisound MAD1259 pdf
Dayton Audio UM12-22 12" Ultimax DVC Subwoofer 2 ohms Per Co 295-512
SB Acoustics has more sensitivity of all but I can not say it has more low frequency extension.
Pay attention to the impedance/amp compatibility of your driver also, "total impedance of 4 to 8 ohms is recommended" Keiga KG5230 Subwoofer Amplifier
Another alternative/option for a 8 Ohm driver selection it's Dayton Audio RSS315HFA-8 (#3).
Dayton Audio RSS315HFA-8 12" Reference HF Subwoofer 8 Ohm 295-445
Make sure you have the old spec-ed NHT 1259 and not the new MAD1259, they are different.
Below I show graphs for the equivalent of the NHT 1259, Dayton Audio UM12-22 12" Ultimax (#1) and similar SB Acoustics SB34NRX75-6 (#2) in a 85L/3ft³ sealed enclosure. 😀
NHT 1259 replacement?
Home Audio Projects using the NHT1259 Driver
Madisound MAD1259 pdf
Dayton Audio UM12-22 12" Ultimax DVC Subwoofer 2 ohms Per Co 295-512
SB Acoustics has more sensitivity of all but I can not say it has more low frequency extension.
Pay attention to the impedance/amp compatibility of your driver also, "total impedance of 4 to 8 ohms is recommended" Keiga KG5230 Subwoofer Amplifier
Another alternative/option for a 8 Ohm driver selection it's Dayton Audio RSS315HFA-8 (#3).
Dayton Audio RSS315HFA-8 12" Reference HF Subwoofer 8 Ohm 295-445
Attachments
Just to compare apples to apples, you see on the SB Acoustics spec sheet, down where it says' "Sensitivity (2.83v/1m) 90db...", gotta watch that stuff. there's a little trick that some manufacturers use to bolster upward a product's weak points. You notice that it says'...1/m, but it "doesn't say", 1w/1m?? That's because they claim to have fed the driver 2.83 volts, but into 6 ohms instead of an 8 ohm load. 2.83 volts into 8 ohms equals one watt. But 2.83 volts into 6 ohms equals 1 and a half watts; who knows, maybe they fed it two watts. that's no accident, a lot companies use this trick and if you're not careful and read exactly what's there, you'll miss it. There's another pro-sound speaker company by the name of "Beyma", who published a doctored-up spec sheet to make a poor sensitivity number look much better by feeding 2.83 volts (which should've been into 8 ohms), into 2 ohms, which comes out to be 4 watts; that's 4 times the input, just to make the sensitivity (SPL) output read 100db; that's 6db higher than it really is. Let me see if I can upload their "faked-up" spec sheet:
rig
Last edited:
Just wanted you guys/girls, to watch for this trick; it's pretty common so keep your eyes open. See the sensivity rating on this sheet. It pretends to be 100db @ 1w, or 2.83V. The trick is, 2.83v is one watt, when fed into a 8 ohm load. But when you feed 2.83 volts into a 2 ohm load, it then becomes "4 watts", which will give you four times the output, or 6db. This becomes very problematic for those who may be comparing to other pro drivers, with intention of buying by the (truck load) skid. Take a look:
Attachments
Last edited:
Here's the sheet (posted above ^^^^^). If you click on it, it will be enlarged
Sorry for my incompetence with this upload; I'll need much practice!
rig
Sorry for my incompetence with this upload; I'll need much practice!
rig
Last edited:
rigtec, good point!
Inductor, my sub is the old NHT1259. Unfortunately the cone detached from the suspension. Maybe someone can fix it, but I'll try another sub anyway. Thanks for the recommendations I'll do my research.
Inductor, my sub is the old NHT1259. Unfortunately the cone detached from the suspension. Maybe someone can fix it, but I'll try another sub anyway. Thanks for the recommendations I'll do my research.
Here's the sheet (posted above ^^^^^). If you click on it, it will be enlarged
Sorry for my incompetence with this upload; I'll need much practice!
Sorry for my incompetence with this upload; I'll need much practice!
18P80Nd - Beyma
rigtec,
THERE'S NO TRICK HERE from what I see with Beyma.
Beyma it's an actual world leader driver producer and one of the best (type here old school) in respect of fairness with drivers quality, measurements/specs and technical support. It's data is supposed to be very accurate until proved the contrary. Beyma Professional Loudspeakers
To the drivers you mention.
SB Acoustics SB34NRX75-6 (link above):
It's spec data (90dB) is accurate from what I see and I have nothing to say about this.
Now to the problematic Beyma 18P80ND you mention (link here):
The 100dB is not the sensitivity in the low frequency extension of the driver but a media of the total output in the frequency graph what can give some misuse because most of the time they are not used in the top part of the specter in the high fidelity loudspeakers, some time it's used in guitar speakers. Some manufacturers knowing this reduce the data to say, a lower frequency before breakup. Each manufacturer have their policies but also have very rigid international ones in the technical domain, agreed to follow.
For this driver and using the formulas for the lower frequencies sensitivity, that are going to be used in a similar situation, I have
In a OB (baffle) SPL
Sensitivity in 2Pi steradian:
99.7 dB/2.83V/m
97.8 dB/W/m
Sensitivity in 4Pi steradian:
95.7 dB/2.83V/m
93.8 dB/W/m
In a speaker (enclosure) SPLb
Sensitivity in 2Pi steradian:
98.6 dB/2.83V/m
96.7 dB/W/m
Sensitivity in 4Pi steradian:
94.6 dB/2.83V/m
92.7 dB/W/m
The trick is...
rigtec,
THERE'S NO TRICK HERE from what I see with Beyma.
Beyma it's an actual world leader driver producer and one of the best (type here old school) in respect of fairness with drivers quality, measurements/specs and technical support. It's data is supposed to be very accurate until proved the contrary. Beyma Professional Loudspeakers
To the drivers you mention.
SB Acoustics SB34NRX75-6 (link above):
It's spec data (90dB) is accurate from what I see and I have nothing to say about this.
Now to the problematic Beyma 18P80ND you mention (link here):
The 100dB is not the sensitivity in the low frequency extension of the driver but a media of the total output in the frequency graph what can give some misuse because most of the time they are not used in the top part of the specter in the high fidelity loudspeakers, some time it's used in guitar speakers. Some manufacturers knowing this reduce the data to say, a lower frequency before breakup. Each manufacturer have their policies but also have very rigid international ones in the technical domain, agreed to follow.
For this driver and using the formulas for the lower frequencies sensitivity, that are going to be used in a similar situation, I have
In a OB (baffle) SPL
Sensitivity in 2Pi steradian:
99.7 dB/2.83V/m
97.8 dB/W/m
Sensitivity in 4Pi steradian:
95.7 dB/2.83V/m
93.8 dB/W/m
In a speaker (enclosure) SPLb
Sensitivity in 2Pi steradian:
98.6 dB/2.83V/m
96.7 dB/W/m
Sensitivity in 4Pi steradian:
94.6 dB/2.83V/m
92.7 dB/W/m
Attachments
- Status
- Not open for further replies.