Hi everyone,
I have found this forum and was wondering if anyone can point me in the right direction on an erratic 'No Disc' error on a Sony CDP-XE530 (CD player).
On inserting a CD, I can hear the player trying to spin up the CD and it mostly fails to do so, after a while displaying 'No Disc'. I opened the case and noted that by putting a very small manual pressure on the 'spindle' on top of the CD tray during the spin up operation, the disc spins at normal speed, and is read fine. Once playing, all operations including skipping a track, etc, are normal. The pressure I mentioned was very slight, downward and in the direction of play (clockwise on the spindle), but really very little pressure at all.
The strange thing is, sometimes after stopping the disc, and then ejecting and reinserting it, it will spin up fine and can be played fine. On other occasions, on reinserting the disc, the problem reoccurs and it will not spin up itself.
The noise that can be heard when it tries and fails to spin up is mostly a slight 'slipping' noise, but sometimes it is more of a clicking noise.
I have tried disassembling the unit and cleaning the laser with Isopropyl alcohol but sadly this has not improved the issue. I had a quick look at the belt when I had the unit disassembled as I have heard this can sometimes be an issue. It looked in pretty good condition, no weak points and not degraded, although I don't know how tight it should be optimally. The remainder of the internals of the unit also look in good condition.
It seems a waste to dispose of the unit altogether as once a small pressure is applied to the disc spindle, it works fine. I would be very grateful for any help. I am a newcomer to fixing old audio tech but good at following instructions so would be grateful for any advice.
Thank you very much,
Edd
I have found this forum and was wondering if anyone can point me in the right direction on an erratic 'No Disc' error on a Sony CDP-XE530 (CD player).
On inserting a CD, I can hear the player trying to spin up the CD and it mostly fails to do so, after a while displaying 'No Disc'. I opened the case and noted that by putting a very small manual pressure on the 'spindle' on top of the CD tray during the spin up operation, the disc spins at normal speed, and is read fine. Once playing, all operations including skipping a track, etc, are normal. The pressure I mentioned was very slight, downward and in the direction of play (clockwise on the spindle), but really very little pressure at all.
The strange thing is, sometimes after stopping the disc, and then ejecting and reinserting it, it will spin up fine and can be played fine. On other occasions, on reinserting the disc, the problem reoccurs and it will not spin up itself.
The noise that can be heard when it tries and fails to spin up is mostly a slight 'slipping' noise, but sometimes it is more of a clicking noise.
I have tried disassembling the unit and cleaning the laser with Isopropyl alcohol but sadly this has not improved the issue. I had a quick look at the belt when I had the unit disassembled as I have heard this can sometimes be an issue. It looked in pretty good condition, no weak points and not degraded, although I don't know how tight it should be optimally. The remainder of the internals of the unit also look in good condition.
It seems a waste to dispose of the unit altogether as once a small pressure is applied to the disc spindle, it works fine. I would be very grateful for any help. I am a newcomer to fixing old audio tech but good at following instructions so would be grateful for any advice.
Thank you very much,
Edd
Welcome to diyAudio 🙂
These kind of faults can be difficult to diagnose without more detailed investigation. Given what you say about applying pressure and so on then its worth making sure the platter the disc sits on is clean and has no debris. Clean with a cotton bud and iso. Make sure the clamp is working correctly. These are normally magnetic and just sit on top of the disc.
Check the disc spins true (no wobble at the edge when viewed edge on).
Spindle motors (that drive the platter) can get worn and cause issues.
One of the first checks I would do is look at the RF signal from the pickup using an oscilloscope as that tells so much.
You might this interesting:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/sony-cdp790-and-kss240-restoration-project.226288/
These kind of faults can be difficult to diagnose without more detailed investigation. Given what you say about applying pressure and so on then its worth making sure the platter the disc sits on is clean and has no debris. Clean with a cotton bud and iso. Make sure the clamp is working correctly. These are normally magnetic and just sit on top of the disc.
Check the disc spins true (no wobble at the edge when viewed edge on).
Spindle motors (that drive the platter) can get worn and cause issues.
One of the first checks I would do is look at the RF signal from the pickup using an oscilloscope as that tells so much.
You might this interesting:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/sony-cdp790-and-kss240-restoration-project.226288/
The belt drives the disc in and if slipping will cause a no read situation, because it doesn't quite grip the turntable properly, similar to your issue.
Replace the belt with a genuine belt.
It is a fiddle but worth it in most cases.
IPA is not good with plastic lenses. I always use Sony Cleaning Liquid, which is a mild washing up solution, applied with a cotton bud. Part number J25001000A.
It is also worth blowing out the dust on the underside of the lens if it the is open type, KSS 150 etc.
Replace the belt with a genuine belt.
It is a fiddle but worth it in most cases.
IPA is not good with plastic lenses. I always use Sony Cleaning Liquid, which is a mild washing up solution, applied with a cotton bud. Part number J25001000A.
It is also worth blowing out the dust on the underside of the lens if it the is open type, KSS 150 etc.
Hi @Mooly ,
Thank you very much for the warm welcome and fast reply 🙂
Apologies for the noob question right from the start, but, when you mention the 'platter' the disc sits on, I'm assuming this isn't the disc tray but something else?
In terms of checking the clamp, is this just a case of observing when the disc is inserted whether it appears to sit correctly or could you expand on this?
I just had a look at the thread you linked, well done for your amazing efforts to restore that unit, a very noble project which I see has been successful!
Many thanks, Edd
Thank you very much for the warm welcome and fast reply 🙂
Apologies for the noob question right from the start, but, when you mention the 'platter' the disc sits on, I'm assuming this isn't the disc tray but something else?
In terms of checking the clamp, is this just a case of observing when the disc is inserted whether it appears to sit correctly or could you expand on this?
This could be a bit of a reach for me as I don't have an oscilloscope. Are they expensive/could you recommend one? Where would I connect it within the device to get the readout that you would need?
I just had a look at the thread you linked, well done for your amazing efforts to restore that unit, a very noble project which I see has been successful!
Many thanks, Edd
Hi @JonSnell Electronic ,
Thank you very much for your reply.
Do you have a recommended source for the belt? Or is this as simple as sourcing one on eBay?
Many thanks, Edd
Thank you very much for your reply.
Do you have a recommended source for the belt? Or is this as simple as sourcing one on eBay?
Many thanks, Edd
Hi again @Mooly and @JonSnell Electronic ,
I have tried some of the steps outlined;
1. I located and cleaned the platter the disc sits on.
2. I noted the clamp appears to be working normally.
3. The disc appears to be playing at the correct angle/flat.
4. I observed the lens is KSS-213B and appears to be quite sealed in so no dust to blow from underneath the lens.
I then re-inspected the belt. I removed it and noticed some wearing around one of the spindles (some small remnants of the belt material remained when I removed the belt). However, it still felt quite tight overall and seemed to be working. I replaced the same belt (I don't have a spare, yet).
I had a look at the motor that drives the spindle and could just about make out the following codes in case any of this is useful:
RF-310T-
MD069
D/V 5.9
Unfortunately none of the above has resolved the issue.
In case this is helpful, I've made a movie clip of the issue. At the start are the 'slipping' noise type. When I eject and reinsert the CD, you can later hear the more defined 'clicking' noise. I wonder if this might help?
If you think it's worth trying the belt then I will order one. But if anything else to try first please let me know.
Note: I've just tried to attach the movie file but I can't select it from Attach Files. Are .mov files not permitted and/or is there a size limitation?
Again thank you so much for your time and expertise!
I have tried some of the steps outlined;
1. I located and cleaned the platter the disc sits on.
2. I noted the clamp appears to be working normally.
3. The disc appears to be playing at the correct angle/flat.
4. I observed the lens is KSS-213B and appears to be quite sealed in so no dust to blow from underneath the lens.
I then re-inspected the belt. I removed it and noticed some wearing around one of the spindles (some small remnants of the belt material remained when I removed the belt). However, it still felt quite tight overall and seemed to be working. I replaced the same belt (I don't have a spare, yet).
I had a look at the motor that drives the spindle and could just about make out the following codes in case any of this is useful:
RF-310T-
MD069
D/V 5.9
Unfortunately none of the above has resolved the issue.
In case this is helpful, I've made a movie clip of the issue. At the start are the 'slipping' noise type. When I eject and reinsert the CD, you can later hear the more defined 'clicking' noise. I wonder if this might help?
If you think it's worth trying the belt then I will order one. But if anything else to try first please let me know.
Note: I've just tried to attach the movie file but I can't select it from Attach Files. Are .mov files not permitted and/or is there a size limitation?
Again thank you so much for your time and expertise!
You use that as well... mine has run out after many years so I mix my own now, about 30% iso, 70% pure water with a couple of drops of detergent added. I remember a Sony bulletin from the very early days of CD saying that iso wasn't recommended for coated optics (usually those with a bluish tinge) although I know many use pure iso without issue.
The platter is the little turntable the disc sits on.
Really just a case of making sure the disc is tightly clamped to the platter. The clamp as viewed from above and when spinning can sometimes appear to wobble to and fro and that is normal. As long as the loading mechanism completes the loading cycle fully there is unlikely to be any subtle issue with the clamp. Its either clamped or it is not. If not the platter spins and does not grip the disc.
That's a standard (usually Mabuchi brand) motor often used in these applications. As well as wear in the top bearing they become electrically noisy with contamination of the commutator and brushes.
'scopes are the number one tool for diagnostics but probably not worth investing in for a one off repair like this. A good one is not cheap, all the new models are digital ones with traditional analogue ones with a CRT screen not being made now. Unless you are paying big money a modest s/h analogue scope will show far more detail without the sampling artefacts that are the bane of many digital scopes.
If it will fit in a zipped folder you can attach it...
Dear @Mooly ,
Thank you again for your reply. I've cropped the video file down massively to get it under the 10mb limit, which is attached. I am hopeful it might be useful in illuminating the issue?
The attached video shows the most common noise which is the 'slipping' noise. However, it will occasionally make a 'clicking' noice instead. I will try to attach that as a separate video clip.
I have tried cleaning the platter and checking the clamp. I think you're right about the scope - I won't be regularly doing this type of activity and to be honest I'd need quite a bit of training to know how to use the tool anyway!
If you'd be happy to have a look at the video clip I'd be very grateful. Thank you very much, Edd
Thank you again for your reply. I've cropped the video file down massively to get it under the 10mb limit, which is attached. I am hopeful it might be useful in illuminating the issue?
The attached video shows the most common noise which is the 'slipping' noise. However, it will occasionally make a 'clicking' noice instead. I will try to attach that as a separate video clip.
I have tried cleaning the platter and checking the clamp. I think you're right about the scope - I won't be regularly doing this type of activity and to be honest I'd need quite a bit of training to know how to use the tool anyway!
If you'd be happy to have a look at the video clip I'd be very grateful. Thank you very much, Edd
Hello again @Mooly ,
Here is the second video clip with the more pronounced 'clicking' noise (mentioned in my previous post).
Because I have had to crop down the videos so much, what is perhaps lost in the difference between them is on the first video, the laser head is moving around quite a bit. Meanwhile, in this 'clicking' video, the laser head seems to be more static.
Thank you very much, Edd
Here is the second video clip with the more pronounced 'clicking' noise (mentioned in my previous post).
Because I have had to crop down the videos so much, what is perhaps lost in the difference between them is on the first video, the laser head is moving around quite a bit. Meanwhile, in this 'clicking' video, the laser head seems to be more static.
Thank you very much, Edd
That sounds like the lens doing the focus search operation which is normal. It moves up and down three times to find focus on the stationary disc. As soon as focus is found the disc should spin up to speed.
You might hear that same noise if you just close the tray with no disc.
I do see the disc trying to move. What happens if deliberately give the disc a spin as it is trying. Does that enable it to play? If so it may be a motor issue.
You might hear that same noise if you just close the tray with no disc.
I do see the disc trying to move. What happens if deliberately give the disc a spin as it is trying. Does that enable it to play? If so it may be a motor issue.
Hi @Mooly ,
Thank you for your continued help on this issue.
You are correct: a very slight pressure applied to the top of the clamp enables the disc to play normally. It’s remarkable how light touch the pressure needs to be in order for it to work.
Occasionally, the next time the disc is played from stationary, it will work of its own accord, but the time after that I need to apply pressure again for it to play.
What would you suggest as a next step? Is it worth trying to source a new motor - which I assume would be the spindle motor?
Many thanks, Edd
Thank you for your continued help on this issue.
You are correct: a very slight pressure applied to the top of the clamp enables the disc to play normally. It’s remarkable how light touch the pressure needs to be in order for it to work.
Occasionally, the next time the disc is played from stationary, it will work of its own accord, but the time after that I need to apply pressure again for it to play.
What would you suggest as a next step? Is it worth trying to source a new motor - which I assume would be the spindle motor?
Many thanks, Edd
I'm wondering it is is just a sticky or lazy motor. Is it pressure you are applying or is it the act of just moving the motor slightly. Try helping the disc to spin rather than pressure. If the platter wasn't gripping the disc then you would hear it slipping as the platter tries to rotate.
One trick you can try (but you must electrically isolate the motor first) is to apply a 9 volt battery across the motor terminals to spin it at very high speed and try and clean the commutator. Only one terminal need be isolated. Do that with the battery both ways around for about 6 or 7 seconds. A single drop of light oil to the top bearing of the motor can also be applied. A single drop on the end of a bit of wire is one way to dispense it assuming there is enough room.
One trick you can try (but you must electrically isolate the motor first) is to apply a 9 volt battery across the motor terminals to spin it at very high speed and try and clean the commutator. Only one terminal need be isolated. Do that with the battery both ways around for about 6 or 7 seconds. A single drop of light oil to the top bearing of the motor can also be applied. A single drop on the end of a bit of wire is one way to dispense it assuming there is enough room.
Hi @Mooly ,
Please accept my apologies for the delayed reply and thank you for this.
I'd say the successful outcome is moving the motor slightly.
As mentioned at the top of the post, I'm afraid I am new to repairing old tech, so, could you explain in more detail how to 'electrically isolate' one of the terminals for the motor? Really sorry as I appreciate this will be a very elementary question but I'm not sure how best to achieve this.
Many thanks, again,
Edd
It means disconnecting the motor from the electronics that drive it. If this isn't done and you apply voltage to the motor then you also apply that voltage to the electronics which would/could be damaging.
So the motor has to disconnected and looking at this player that means desoldering it from the board which if you have never done anything like that could be tricky. I would use solder braid to cleanly remove the solder and then make sure the motor terminals are not in electrical contact with the board. You an they safely apply voltage to the motor terminals directly.
So the motor has to disconnected and looking at this player that means desoldering it from the board which if you have never done anything like that could be tricky. I would use solder braid to cleanly remove the solder and then make sure the motor terminals are not in electrical contact with the board. You an they safely apply voltage to the motor terminals directly.
Hi @Mooly , thank you very much for this.
I'll have a think about it but will probably toss the unit. Shame as I had hoped it would be something straightforward but never mind.
Can you still get a decent CD Hi Fi separate crucially with an Optical Out 'TOSLINK' port in it? I am primarily a Mini Disc person and I want to get a CD player to record to MD. Not sure if this is the right forum to ask about that but any recommendations gladly received 🙂
Thanks for all your help to get to this point! Best Wishes, Edd
I'll have a think about it but will probably toss the unit. Shame as I had hoped it would be something straightforward but never mind.
Can you still get a decent CD Hi Fi separate crucially with an Optical Out 'TOSLINK' port in it? I am primarily a Mini Disc person and I want to get a CD player to record to MD. Not sure if this is the right forum to ask about that but any recommendations gladly received 🙂
Thanks for all your help to get to this point! Best Wishes, Edd
If you are at that point you could try it anyway without disconnecting anything but perhaps use a bit lower voltage. Absolutely no guarantees of course.
Same here, I think MD is brilliant. Are you talking new or an eBay special 😉
Hi @Mooly,
Ah great, a fellow fan. It is of course enjoying something of a revival in the retrotech world especially in the last 5 years. I still find it incredible that format was introduced in 1992, it still seems immense to me in 2023. I must be getting on in my years!
If such components are available new, I'd most likely buy a new unit, cost depending. That way I know it's up to spec and not well worn already. Any recommendations very much welcomed but fully appreciate this may be out of scope.
Cheers, Edd
Ah great, a fellow fan. It is of course enjoying something of a revival in the retrotech world especially in the last 5 years. I still find it incredible that format was introduced in 1992, it still seems immense to me in 2023. I must be getting on in my years!
If such components are available new, I'd most likely buy a new unit, cost depending. That way I know it's up to spec and not well worn already. Any recommendations very much welcomed but fully appreciate this may be out of scope.
Cheers, Edd
I'll have to think on new players as I haven't bought one since around 2011. No idea what's available tbh. Rotel? but I've no idea what they do these days in CD.
Nothing comes close to MD for versatility and ease of use imo. I went on a 3 day course at Sony in the early days of MD and we did all the theory and pulled a few apart as well. They never go wrong though if looked after (apart from loading belts) and so I've never ever worked on any with a real fault.
Nothing comes close to MD for versatility and ease of use imo. I went on a 3 day course at Sony in the early days of MD and we did all the theory and pulled a few apart as well. They never go wrong though if looked after (apart from loading belts) and so I've never ever worked on any with a real fault.