I've got some money burning a hole in my pocket, as my grandma used to say. Rather than p--s more of it away on poor choices in the stock market, I have long toyed with the idea of getting a pair of Danleys for home use. Alas, the biggest impediment isn't money, but the perfectly good pair of Yorkville U15 I've had for about 5 years. These were bought used/cheap and I tweaked them to taste, and actively EQ-ed, they (probably) approach what many DSL speakers could offer, of course, without the latest crossovers and such. "Well then, why are you posting about buying newer speakers if you're not serious?" people may inquire.
Just so. Many of DSL speakers are way overkill for the home, of course. If I had a spare $8K or so, I might spring for the classic SH50. But maybe something smaller. DSL has a range of much smaller unts that might serve well in the home. The SM60M or SM60F is a likely candidate, but isn't all that much cheaper than the monster SH50, perhaps $2500/each. What about even cheaper? On Ebay there is a pair of the oddly named GO2-8CX, for $1600 open box. This suggests perhaps $1000/ea. new -- very close to what the Yorkville U15 sold for when it was new. If you look at DSL's specs for the GO2-8CX, it is impressive for a 8" co-ax. I'm not familiar with "church" or PA type installations. I'm assuming it could be run from a normal home amp (8 ohm). With their smaller speakers, of course you'll lose the pattern control at lower frequencies. But how important is that, in the living room?
So, throwing out the question: has anyone used the really small DSL speakers for home use? They seem like they would be a good fit, if their performance is anywhere near what is claimed for their bigger brothers.
Just so. Many of DSL speakers are way overkill for the home, of course. If I had a spare $8K or so, I might spring for the classic SH50. But maybe something smaller. DSL has a range of much smaller unts that might serve well in the home. The SM60M or SM60F is a likely candidate, but isn't all that much cheaper than the monster SH50, perhaps $2500/each. What about even cheaper? On Ebay there is a pair of the oddly named GO2-8CX, for $1600 open box. This suggests perhaps $1000/ea. new -- very close to what the Yorkville U15 sold for when it was new. If you look at DSL's specs for the GO2-8CX, it is impressive for a 8" co-ax. I'm not familiar with "church" or PA type installations. I'm assuming it could be run from a normal home amp (8 ohm). With their smaller speakers, of course you'll lose the pattern control at lower frequencies. But how important is that, in the living room?
So, throwing out the question: has anyone used the really small DSL speakers for home use? They seem like they would be a good fit, if their performance is anywhere near what is claimed for their bigger brothers.
Once you get to the smaller sizes other options become competitive. The main advantage of Danley's stuff is getting all the sound to propagate from an apparent point source at the apex of a large horn.
You lose the output and pattern control if you shrink it down to a bookshelf. At that point you might be better served with waveguide loaded active monitors.
Martin Audio makes one of the best prosound coaxials around in their CDD Live series if you want to stick with point sources.
How much do you want to spend?
You lose the output and pattern control if you shrink it down to a bookshelf. At that point you might be better served with waveguide loaded active monitors.
Martin Audio makes one of the best prosound coaxials around in their CDD Live series if you want to stick with point sources.
How much do you want to spend?
It tends to get more important as spaces get smaller.
There is a point below the size where a single compression driver could work into on its own, where it becomes questionable whether two ways are needed to drive such a smaller horn. At this point the conventional synergy method meaning begins to change.
Thank you for the replies. I've decided to keep the Yorkville U15. But I would not be averse to jumping on a pair of SH60M or SH50 at half price if they should appear. It happens, but they are very reare on the used market when I've looked in the past.
Recently, I've had a similar experience (?) evaluating my 17-year old Heat Pump system. It is showing its age (occasional evaporate freeze, yes it is checked, thermal expansion value going bad, not worth fixing). I did some figureing, research, got estimates for a new system, and have decided it makes no economic sense to replace the system until it utterly dies. I was particularly unimpressed by the payback times of a new system, even though 1/3 to 2/3 better efficiency, ☹ 30 years (!!!), on a new system that would have an expected service life of half or a third of that �� Very well, at least my mutant stereo system doesn't need to be defrosted at irregular intervals 🙂
Recently, I've had a similar experience (?) evaluating my 17-year old Heat Pump system. It is showing its age (occasional evaporate freeze, yes it is checked, thermal expansion value going bad, not worth fixing). I did some figureing, research, got estimates for a new system, and have decided it makes no economic sense to replace the system until it utterly dies. I was particularly unimpressed by the payback times of a new system, even though 1/3 to 2/3 better efficiency, ☹ 30 years (!!!), on a new system that would have an expected service life of half or a third of that �� Very well, at least my mutant stereo system doesn't need to be defrosted at irregular intervals 🙂
There is a Danley buying/selling group on Facebook and things do show up on eBay. Not a lot of SH50 or 69s, but occasionally they show up. Mostly subs for sale. I've been looking for some used SH for an install.
FWIW, having heard the entire Danley line in the same room in both Vegas and Orlando, I can say that the tonal balance varies a lot over the product line. The SH50 seems spot on, the other vary.
How about using Bill Waslo's calculations to build your own?
FWIW, having heard the entire Danley line in the same room in both Vegas and Orlando, I can say that the tonal balance varies a lot over the product line. The SH50 seems spot on, the other vary.
How about using Bill Waslo's calculations to build your own?
Thanks for the suggestions. I quit Facebook two years ago and see no reason to resume. I'm on Ebay, and will watch there.
Important point: Danley speakers are pricey but seem rare used, so if I didn't like a pair, they would probably sell easily on Ebay or similar. Unlike my dust-collecting pile of Bose 901s and my remnants of Yorkville U15 🙂
I've very briefly heard real DSL speakers, at the factory, but no way to do a real listening test.
Build my own? Ha ha ha!
I have neither the equipment, much less the skill or patience.
Important point: Danley speakers are pricey but seem rare used, so if I didn't like a pair, they would probably sell easily on Ebay or similar. Unlike my dust-collecting pile of Bose 901s and my remnants of Yorkville U15 🙂
I've very briefly heard real DSL speakers, at the factory, but no way to do a real listening test.
Build my own? Ha ha ha!
I have neither the equipment, much less the skill or patience.
Hi Soldermizer,
You have not tell us what is the size of the room, type of walls? It cerainly has its importance as the talk is about PA speakers...listening distance and bass behavior ...don t want to overload the room too much with a too huge gettho box sound????
The great Bwaslo has given a 3d printed model for a unity horn...that needs just straigjt wood to expand until the mouth....maybesomething near his lovely box could fit better your room...you can pay a carpenter with the budget.or you live in a ranch or a chateau ?
Do you need high efficienty cause tubed ?
You have not tell us what is the size of the room, type of walls? It cerainly has its importance as the talk is about PA speakers...listening distance and bass behavior ...don t want to overload the room too much with a too huge gettho box sound????
The great Bwaslo has given a 3d printed model for a unity horn...that needs just straigjt wood to expand until the mouth....maybesomething near his lovely box could fit better your room...you can pay a carpenter with the budget.or you live in a ranch or a chateau ?
Do you need high efficienty cause tubed ?
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I hear you. I have the equipment and the patience, maybe the skills - but haven't rushed off to build a set. They would be a trick build. I suppose you could find someone around central Florida to build a smaller version for less then you could buy a set, but I doubt it would be a quick job.
True about resale, they seem to go quick.
True about resale, they seem to go quick.
I have not heard them but maybe the Dutch&Dutch 8c if the already owned dac and amp are not beloved beyond reason then such little speaker could be cardioid enough ??? Eventually play with presurization with a good REL subbox to help the one and half first octave¿
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I thought about this idea of having a Danley type horn many years ago, when I was interested in DIY'ing something for home use. A number of well-meaning responders on the forum questioned it, pointed out all the issues and it felt like a rush of cold water so the idea died there. I'm sharing this as a caution - if you are excited about a Danley horn, don't give up so easily. If you are really determined, why not see if you can get a home-demo or short term rent since these are PA speakers after all - nothing beats a test drive.
It would be worthwhile to expand your search if you really have the itch. Tom's market is sound reinforcement, so pro audio or musician websites are the places to keep tabs on. I found mine on Reverb (via a couple of nice guys on the Klipsch forum) and for about 30% of retail.
Danley labs also prominently appeals to "houses of worship" so if you can figure out how to find a forum or two that caters to those folks, you might find a pair from a church that has been talked into upgrading their sound system. That was where mine were.
They're pretty good speakers. ;-)
Danley labs also prominently appeals to "houses of worship" so if you can figure out how to find a forum or two that caters to those folks, you might find a pair from a church that has been talked into upgrading their sound system. That was where mine were.
They're pretty good speakers. ;-)
The rent is a great idea...and if the spouse is not going back at the evening dinner....then the problem is perhaps not the sound only....😉
John Batman here rent a sh50 and can testimonies about the sound in home areas.
John Batman here rent a sh50 and can testimonies about the sound in home areas.
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Looking on Reverb is a good idea. Usually I find the prices there too high, but if you scored a pair at a great price, then it could happen again. 
never heard such a speaker, what makes them so good? is the sh50 one of the best speakers in the world?
Have you thought about modifying an existing plastic horn? the wood work is considerably more simple than a scratch build. I only used a jig saw, drill, a fret saw, paper templates and various glues to build mine:
BM-D446 on PH-4220
In terms of horns that look like they would work well and are available; perhaps some of the JBL screen array horns?
3730 | JBL Professional Loudspeakers
BM-D446 on PH-4220
In terms of horns that look like they would work well and are available; perhaps some of the JBL screen array horns?
3730 | JBL Professional Loudspeakers
Second kipman's idea about modifying an existing plastic horn for increased ease of build, especially when talking about smaller speakers.
I also think the synergy design loses its advantage to traditional speakers, as speaker size gets smaller. As traditional speaker's driver-to-driver spacing gets closer as they get smaller, the need for a synergy diminishes.
And a straight walled conical horn will have mouth termination issues.
(which is about the only practical way i've seen to build a synergy completely from scratch) .
The issues aren't terrible and can be mitigated with secondary flares; but compared to a more smoothly terminating plastic horn, they are a pain in the butt to deal with.
Ime/imo, the straight walled conical horn is a price worth paying when moving to a larger speaker, when wanting greater SPL and dynamics throughout the spectrum.
Because this desire inevitably forces greater c-to-c spacing with traditional speakers, and then the synergy's advantages grow by leaps and bounds.
It's pretty clear a bunch of us DIY'ers who are into synergy's, would love to find a large plastic horn for larger synergies, to help with mouth termination.
(and not to mention solving how to build the dang horn 😛)
Anyway,.....I think synergies are very well suited for close listening, in addition to far. Just keeps coming back to the advantages of tight c-to-c's.
The one thing that is a little tricky in a small room, is how the pattern control fits the room response.
I've built 60x60, 60x40, 90x60, and 75x50...all reasonably close in size, and they really do interact differently with nearly identical tuning other than their pattern ranges.
The narrower the pattern, the more of a downward sloping house curve has been needed....which makes total sense really.....
Renting would be cool if it works...
I also think the synergy design loses its advantage to traditional speakers, as speaker size gets smaller. As traditional speaker's driver-to-driver spacing gets closer as they get smaller, the need for a synergy diminishes.
And a straight walled conical horn will have mouth termination issues.
(which is about the only practical way i've seen to build a synergy completely from scratch) .
The issues aren't terrible and can be mitigated with secondary flares; but compared to a more smoothly terminating plastic horn, they are a pain in the butt to deal with.
Ime/imo, the straight walled conical horn is a price worth paying when moving to a larger speaker, when wanting greater SPL and dynamics throughout the spectrum.
Because this desire inevitably forces greater c-to-c spacing with traditional speakers, and then the synergy's advantages grow by leaps and bounds.
It's pretty clear a bunch of us DIY'ers who are into synergy's, would love to find a large plastic horn for larger synergies, to help with mouth termination.
(and not to mention solving how to build the dang horn 😛)
Anyway,.....I think synergies are very well suited for close listening, in addition to far. Just keeps coming back to the advantages of tight c-to-c's.
The one thing that is a little tricky in a small room, is how the pattern control fits the room response.
I've built 60x60, 60x40, 90x60, and 75x50...all reasonably close in size, and they really do interact differently with nearly identical tuning other than their pattern ranges.
The narrower the pattern, the more of a downward sloping house curve has been needed....which makes total sense really.....
Renting would be cool if it works...
Soon, probably mid next week, I will have a pair of Danley Go2 8CX and a Studio 2 active monitors too at home. I have a Marten Duke 2 and few Quested, PreSonus, Neumann active monitors too, so I can compare them. Let me know if interested in my experience and ask anything you want. I will use the Danleys mostly as a nearfield monitor, listening them from roughly 1,5m.
The Go2 8 CX and the Studio 2 are very interesting designs. The Go2 is a universal box with a 8 inch coax a Synergy crossover in it. It could be a perfect speaker for hifi and for home theatre too. A bit later I hope to try the Danley Nano and Nano sub as well for a small home theatre setup with the Go2s.
The Go2 8 CX and the Studio 2 are very interesting designs. The Go2 is a universal box with a 8 inch coax a Synergy crossover in it. It could be a perfect speaker for hifi and for home theatre too. A bit later I hope to try the Danley Nano and Nano sub as well for a small home theatre setup with the Go2s.