Hello,
Im planning to build a big horn subwoofer that is as easy to build as possible. Space is not really an issue and i pretty much want to put as little effort as possible to get the most sound. In a way i want as few folds as possible but still a decent size.
Im not familiar with hornResp or the other programs so if someone could help me out it would be nice.
Im planning to use the eminence Omega Pro 18C or 18A, depending on how many i will build, but if there is another speaker out there that gives better value i would like some recommendations. (It would be good if Thomann Cyberstore have them).
I made a quick drawing and wonder if you could build them like this or something similar. The only requirement is that they should be about 150 cm wide at the opening and 180cm long.
So in summary and easy build, but hopefully a big sound.
Speaker Detail | Eminence Speaker
Im planning to build a big horn subwoofer that is as easy to build as possible. Space is not really an issue and i pretty much want to put as little effort as possible to get the most sound. In a way i want as few folds as possible but still a decent size.
Im not familiar with hornResp or the other programs so if someone could help me out it would be nice.
Im planning to use the eminence Omega Pro 18C or 18A, depending on how many i will build, but if there is another speaker out there that gives better value i would like some recommendations. (It would be good if Thomann Cyberstore have them).
I made a quick drawing and wonder if you could build them like this or something similar. The only requirement is that they should be about 150 cm wide at the opening and 180cm long.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
So in summary and easy build, but hopefully a big sound.
Speaker Detail | Eminence Speaker
The Eminence Omega Pro 18c has only 4.8mm Xmax.
Using a speaker with double that Xmax would allow 6 dB more output.
The B&C 18 has 12mm Xmax, 14mm Xvar (linear cone travel), it could do around 10 dB more clean output, sounding twice as loud.
There are other far more expensive 18" with even double that output potential!
When building a big horn, might as well load it with capable drivers.
Using a speaker with double that Xmax would allow 6 dB more output.
The B&C 18 has 12mm Xmax, 14mm Xvar (linear cone travel), it could do around 10 dB more clean output, sounding twice as loud.
There are other far more expensive 18" with even double that output potential!
When building a big horn, might as well load it with capable drivers.
That horn looks like it has a ton of angled cuts to construct it. If simple is the name of the game on this project I'd do a different design.
And I agree with art. Go with a driver with more Xmax, stronger motor and stiffer cone to withstand the high pressures generated in a horn loaded subwoofer; which will most likely be driven all out the majority of the time.
The 18sound 18lw2400 is only $100 more than the eminence. And there are plenty of other good drivers available in the $300 range.
Then step up to something like the B&C 18sw115, and that's a new level of output from a pair of horn loaded subs!
And I agree with art. Go with a driver with more Xmax, stronger motor and stiffer cone to withstand the high pressures generated in a horn loaded subwoofer; which will most likely be driven all out the majority of the time.
The 18sound 18lw2400 is only $100 more than the eminence. And there are plenty of other good drivers available in the $300 range.
Then step up to something like the B&C 18sw115, and that's a new level of output from a pair of horn loaded subs!
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Or a cheap, very easy to build (I built this in less than a day in the workshop) large format tapped horn (20hz response) solution could be this design....
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/143714-lab12-tapped-horn.html
Yes it's geared more towards Home theater, but a multitude of these could yield stunning output for dubstep style music....and only uses a $165 driver.
I don't believe I did any angled cuts for this box. Just set the fence on the saw and cut away.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/143714-lab12-tapped-horn.html
Yes it's geared more towards Home theater, but a multitude of these could yield stunning output for dubstep style music....and only uses a $165 driver.
I don't believe I did any angled cuts for this box. Just set the fence on the saw and cut away.
I like the Trapezoidal shape for a tapped Horn layout as you have drawn it.
It is still a fairly simple cabinet but has the added flexibility of being able to vary the taper of the horn half way along its length This would probably give you enough flexibility with the layout to acheive a reasonable response with a variety of drivers🙂 Did a quick sketch to show what might be possible..... I would keep the side panels parallel to simplify construction
Regards Xoc1
It is still a fairly simple cabinet but has the added flexibility of being able to vary the taper of the horn half way along its length This would probably give you enough flexibility with the layout to acheive a reasonable response with a variety of drivers🙂 Did a quick sketch to show what might be possible..... I would keep the side panels parallel to simplify construction
Regards Xoc1
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Hello,
thanks for the suggestions.
Yes the side panels are thought to be parrallell so you could put 2 of these on topp of eachother on each side.
I guess this one would make a better end resault than? (b&c 18sw100)B&C SPEAKERS
What Xoc1 did was what i had in mind. and just mirror it with two horns in each speaker.
How would the frequency respons be? between about 25 and 100 hz, if i go with the B&C speaker?
Regards
thanks for the suggestions.
Yes the side panels are thought to be parrallell so you could put 2 of these on topp of eachother on each side.
I guess this one would make a better end resault than? (b&c 18sw100)B&C SPEAKERS
What Xoc1 did was what i had in mind. and just mirror it with two horns in each speaker.
How would the frequency respons be? between about 25 and 100 hz, if i go with the B&C speaker?
Regards
Hi elleman,
When I click on your link to the Thomann Cyberstore, the first thing it asks for is: ... country. It would help if you could add your country to your diyaudio name.
A great software to evaluate your questions is Hornresp, and it's free.
Also, could you specify the opening size (both dimensions)?
Regards,
When I click on your link to the Thomann Cyberstore, the first thing it asks for is: ... country. It would help if you could add your country to your diyaudio name.
A great software to evaluate your questions is Hornresp, and it's free.
Also, could you specify the opening size (both dimensions)?
Regards,
Nice work Xoc1,
I put the 18sw100 with the same design and got the result shown in the pictures. Looks better than what i could come up with after a few attempts 🙂
Not sure if i got the speaker parameters right though, i think hornresp calculated some and the rest was from the manufacturer, so if someone could take a quick look on that it would be nice.
The raw material im going to use to build is mdf board 1220 X 2440, so making the double horn wont me possible with that one, but doing that design and just putting them together afterwords will just make movement easier.
So than maybe design to have as little spare as possible, for example making the dimensions so the 410 + 713 would end up as 1215 together, and maybe modify the with so its 610 so its just to cut the board in two to get the pieces needed. Just adding an example picture so you see what i mean.
I will try some more with hornresp tomorrow to see if i manage to get any results myself.
Thanks for the feedback so far!
I put the 18sw100 with the same design and got the result shown in the pictures. Looks better than what i could come up with after a few attempts 🙂
Not sure if i got the speaker parameters right though, i think hornresp calculated some and the rest was from the manufacturer, so if someone could take a quick look on that it would be nice.
The raw material im going to use to build is mdf board 1220 X 2440, so making the double horn wont me possible with that one, but doing that design and just putting them together afterwords will just make movement easier.
So than maybe design to have as little spare as possible, for example making the dimensions so the 410 + 713 would end up as 1215 together, and maybe modify the with so its 610 so its just to cut the board in two to get the pieces needed. Just adding an example picture so you see what i mean.
I will try some more with hornresp tomorrow to see if i manage to get any results myself.
Thanks for the feedback so far!
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Hi elleman,
Your Hornresp Input for the 18SW100 looks basically fine to me; I end up with a slightly different Bl using Hornresp to calculate the value, but nothing major. Without Vtc/Atc you don't need Ap1/Lpt (but I think Hornresp just disregards the values in your example?).
By the way, if you double click on Sd (while in the Edit mode) Hornresp will show you the calculated T/S parameters. The Ang value should be set to 2.0 x Pi for general comparison purposes.
I'll attach the Hornresp Input (using the 18SW100) for another one of Xoc1's designs, this 6 Fold from wood1y's thread (this one was perfect for the 18TBX100) http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/170749-15-tapped-horn-rcf-10.html Post #98.
I'll also attach a quick simultion for a 25Hz TH, with the SPL for a group of four. Gets to be a big box fast. 🙂
Regards,
Your Hornresp Input for the 18SW100 looks basically fine to me; I end up with a slightly different Bl using Hornresp to calculate the value, but nothing major. Without Vtc/Atc you don't need Ap1/Lpt (but I think Hornresp just disregards the values in your example?).
By the way, if you double click on Sd (while in the Edit mode) Hornresp will show you the calculated T/S parameters. The Ang value should be set to 2.0 x Pi for general comparison purposes.
I'll attach the Hornresp Input (using the 18SW100) for another one of Xoc1's designs, this 6 Fold from wood1y's thread (this one was perfect for the 18TBX100) http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/170749-15-tapped-horn-rcf-10.html Post #98.
I'll also attach a quick simultion for a 25Hz TH, with the SPL for a group of four. Gets to be a big box fast. 🙂
Regards,
Attachments
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Hi Elleman
I had a little play around with the parameters in Hornresp but failed to come up with any real improvements. All speakers are a compromise between many differing requirements, and it is finding the right balance for your application that is important.
Increasing the width to 610 will have very little effect, but if you add bracing to the cabinet then this still leaves the 600mm internal dimension nearly correct. If you have offcuts then use them to brace the panels as due to the simple design the panels are very large!
The cab really needs the driver to have a big Xmax. Lower excursion drivers would need limited amounts of power to avoid damage
With the 18SW100 with its 12.5 Xmax, Xmax is reached at about a theoretical 77.46V (750W@8R) so doubling up that for thermal losses makes probably 1.5KW + per cab practical, with the correct hi pass filter.
Sim of 4 cabs at 12.5mm xmax and pic atttached😀
Regards Xoc1
I had a little play around with the parameters in Hornresp but failed to come up with any real improvements. All speakers are a compromise between many differing requirements, and it is finding the right balance for your application that is important.
Increasing the width to 610 will have very little effect, but if you add bracing to the cabinet then this still leaves the 600mm internal dimension nearly correct. If you have offcuts then use them to brace the panels as due to the simple design the panels are very large!
The cab really needs the driver to have a big Xmax. Lower excursion drivers would need limited amounts of power to avoid damage
With the 18SW100 with its 12.5 Xmax, Xmax is reached at about a theoretical 77.46V (750W@8R) so doubling up that for thermal losses makes probably 1.5KW + per cab practical, with the correct hi pass filter.
Sim of 4 cabs at 12.5mm xmax and pic atttached😀
Regards Xoc1
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