Does anyone have any first hand knowledge of which of the Seas "kits" are the best bet in terms of the being the best performer, regardless of being a tower or a "short" MTM version?
That is such a subjective question it would be hard to answer. Best for the price? Best bass, best for movies, best in a small cabinet.....
There are lots of good kits out there, from Seas, Zaph and many others. I do suggest starting simply, and don't think a bigger speaker will give you bigger bass.
Best,
Erik
Funny how nobody wants the rubbishest speaker that their friends can sneer at! 😀
I don't like small speakers much. Anything less than 8" bass kinda disappoints me. But all the SEAS kits past and present benefit from good drivers. Build quality is exemplary. Perhaps crossovers are simplistic. Troels Gravesen tends to the more sophisticated than SEAS.
DIY-Loudspeakers
Now if I look for an appealing 8" SEAS bass, this is it!
H1659-08 U22REX/P-SL
Sort of project I'd take on.
I don't like small speakers much. Anything less than 8" bass kinda disappoints me. But all the SEAS kits past and present benefit from good drivers. Build quality is exemplary. Perhaps crossovers are simplistic. Troels Gravesen tends to the more sophisticated than SEAS.
DIY-Loudspeakers
Now if I look for an appealing 8" SEAS bass, this is it!
H1659-08 U22REX/P-SL
Sort of project I'd take on.
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or perhaps the dual woofer Bragi
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/new-products/seas-bragi-kit/
verticals wont be as good as a single woofer, but you will find the lobing where you measure it, not on the floor and ceiling i think. horizontals are very good with the waveguide tweeter.
magnesium excel etc may shout somewhat with an xo this high.
Yes, large speakers fit me just fine. I sure hope that subconsciously I am not trying to compensate for something. 😀
I guess larger cabinets at least have the potential to go lower with all other things being equal. Fair statement?
I was thinking of either the Thor, Delling, or Zaph's ZRT 2.5 sealed with a sub for my next project but was seeking opinions
I guess larger cabinets at least have the potential to go lower with all other things being equal. Fair statement?
I was thinking of either the Thor, Delling, or Zaph's ZRT 2.5 sealed with a sub for my next project but was seeking opinions
It's a vast subject really. I was listening to a superbly set up wall mounted Scanspeak 6" MTM plus ribbon tweeter setup the other week. Subs built into the wall, so the 6" woofers never got congested by excess excursion.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/147632-classic-monitor-designs-27.html
Faultless is the only word, though you never quite solve some of the issues about listening outside the sweet spot.
WE have a member called wilbur-x who seems to have a lot of fun with the E0022-08S W22EX001.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/271727-seas-trim-w22ex001-wg.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/256816-seas-excel-tmm-finished.html
Not the easiest 8" bass, it needs a notch around 5kHz.
But the SEAS Trym is similar:
TRYM
For a first project, 8" bass is easy IMO. There's honestly not much to go wrong. The BRAGI looks nice too. There's less to go wrong with an MTM than a 2.5 way IMO. Less to fiddle with! 😱
Zaph's 2.5 way certainly looks nice in the scanspeak camp:
Zaph|Audio - ZRT - Revelator Tower
I'm pretty lazy myself, I'd go for something simple that works, and with these sort of quality drivers, you won't go far wrong.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/147632-classic-monitor-designs-27.html
Faultless is the only word, though you never quite solve some of the issues about listening outside the sweet spot.
WE have a member called wilbur-x who seems to have a lot of fun with the E0022-08S W22EX001.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/271727-seas-trim-w22ex001-wg.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/256816-seas-excel-tmm-finished.html
Not the easiest 8" bass, it needs a notch around 5kHz.
But the SEAS Trym is similar:
TRYM
For a first project, 8" bass is easy IMO. There's honestly not much to go wrong. The BRAGI looks nice too. There's less to go wrong with an MTM than a 2.5 way IMO. Less to fiddle with! 😱
Zaph's 2.5 way certainly looks nice in the scanspeak camp:
Zaph|Audio - ZRT - Revelator Tower
I'm pretty lazy myself, I'd go for something simple that works, and with these sort of quality drivers, you won't go far wrong.
"We live in the midrange" is a popular quote from Arkansas' Paul Klipsch.
SO: Select the best midrange driver you can afford and design your speaker around it. Might not be Seas 🙁
--The best midrange requires a sealed box for stable Qtc, and to avoid phase shifted bass and "sound leaks" from a port
--The best midrange off-loads high X-max bass to a real woofer above 100Hz.(no Doppler distortion issues if >100Hz)
The Satori line of speakers from SBAcoustics are worth some study. Many positive reviews. A few good kits like the Kairos, Adelphos, Kalissans, use the 6.5" midbass + 1" dome, and an optional 10" woofer.
www.quarter-wave.com/.../Satori_MTM_Bass_Reflex_Speaker_System.pdf
Since you live in Arkansas, the Klipsch state, a Jubilee/Jamboree bass horn and K-402 mid-tweet horn might be your destiny.🙂
SO: Select the best midrange driver you can afford and design your speaker around it. Might not be Seas 🙁
--The best midrange requires a sealed box for stable Qtc, and to avoid phase shifted bass and "sound leaks" from a port
--The best midrange off-loads high X-max bass to a real woofer above 100Hz.(no Doppler distortion issues if >100Hz)
The Satori line of speakers from SBAcoustics are worth some study. Many positive reviews. A few good kits like the Kairos, Adelphos, Kalissans, use the 6.5" midbass + 1" dome, and an optional 10" woofer.
www.quarter-wave.com/.../Satori_MTM_Bass_Reflex_Speaker_System.pdf
Since you live in Arkansas, the Klipsch state, a Jubilee/Jamboree bass horn and K-402 mid-tweet horn might be your destiny.🙂
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Paul Klipsch! Does that ever bring back memories.
His company was a relatively small, sleepy company for many years where they produced a modest number of high quality, and expensive for the time, pieces per year. Then in about 1974 they started actively marketing the brand to the general public as opposed to just audio aficionados as had been their practice. I remember listening to interviews with Mr. Klipsch on my favorite radio station about once per week during this "going big" phase.
The rest is history.
Years later our company had clients in Hope, AR and I met at least one of the long term employees of the Klipsch factory. He had a lot of interesting stories.
Thanks for bring back some pleasant memories.
His company was a relatively small, sleepy company for many years where they produced a modest number of high quality, and expensive for the time, pieces per year. Then in about 1974 they started actively marketing the brand to the general public as opposed to just audio aficionados as had been their practice. I remember listening to interviews with Mr. Klipsch on my favorite radio station about once per week during this "going big" phase.
The rest is history.
Years later our company had clients in Hope, AR and I met at least one of the long term employees of the Klipsch factory. He had a lot of interesting stories.
Thanks for bring back some pleasant memories.
This is a well reviewed paper explaining why MTM topology speakers will produce a garbled soundstage if >5" midranges are used.
Biro Technology
Vertically Symmetric Two-Way Loudspeaker Arrays Reconsidered
=========
Could you live with a well designed and executed 42" high T-M-W topology with a 10" woofer?(13.5" wide cabinet at bottom). One driver for each major frequency range. Find a cabinet design using a 10" woofer which artistically integrates into your listening room decor. A woofer volume designed for ported deep bass will also function well with a sealed port if improved transients are desired, and/of a room subwoofer is used.
If only tall and narrow is acceptable for your home, then TM--WW with a couple 8" woofers is the consistent award winner. SBAcoustics offers two price points, regular and Satori. Crossovers are available, and you can adjust them in XSIM to tune to your room placement.
==============
SB Acoustics 3 ways ==Fat Bottom 10”
Wide FloorStander ..one $250
1.15" SB29RDC-C000-4 $52
6" SB17NRXC35-8 $58
10'' SB29NRXS75-6 $140
=====
==SB Satori 3 ways ==Fat Bottom 10”
Wide FloorStander .one $400
1.15" SBTW29N $120
6" MW16P-8 $140
10'' SB29NRXS75-6 $140
Biro Technology
Vertically Symmetric Two-Way Loudspeaker Arrays Reconsidered
=========
Could you live with a well designed and executed 42" high T-M-W topology with a 10" woofer?(13.5" wide cabinet at bottom). One driver for each major frequency range. Find a cabinet design using a 10" woofer which artistically integrates into your listening room decor. A woofer volume designed for ported deep bass will also function well with a sealed port if improved transients are desired, and/of a room subwoofer is used.
If only tall and narrow is acceptable for your home, then TM--WW with a couple 8" woofers is the consistent award winner. SBAcoustics offers two price points, regular and Satori. Crossovers are available, and you can adjust them in XSIM to tune to your room placement.
==============
SB Acoustics 3 ways ==Fat Bottom 10”
Wide FloorStander ..one $250
1.15" SB29RDC-C000-4 $52
6" SB17NRXC35-8 $58
10'' SB29NRXS75-6 $140
=====
==SB Satori 3 ways ==Fat Bottom 10”
Wide FloorStander .one $400
1.15" SBTW29N $120
6" MW16P-8 $140
10'' SB29NRXS75-6 $140
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It's not the size of the woofer, it's the size of the bass traps, and placement of the speakers and listening location.
I'm using 6" Scanspeak drivers in a ported enclosure (2 way) and the bass is fantastic. Take away the bass traps, move the listening location a foot, it all goes to hell and it sounds like my speakers have shrunk 4."
Going the other way, the bass traps double the apparent size of my sub. Add a little DSP to cut peaks and I have tanks rolling through my living room during the right scenes. 🙂
Best,
Erik
I'm using 6" Scanspeak drivers in a ported enclosure (2 way) and the bass is fantastic. Take away the bass traps, move the listening location a foot, it all goes to hell and it sounds like my speakers have shrunk 4."
Going the other way, the bass traps double the apparent size of my sub. Add a little DSP to cut peaks and I have tanks rolling through my living room during the right scenes. 🙂
Best,
Erik
That is an interesting article from what little I understand, but I think I grasped most of it. There was a similar article floating around about line array considerations which I am trying to locate.
Is this spacing fundamental implied in your article the same reason line arrays spacing is so critical?
Is this spacing fundamental implied in your article the same reason line arrays spacing is so critical?
Russel,
Did you build the cabinets?
IF so, did you run into anything difficult that most average joe woodworkers couldn't handle?
Did you build the cabinets?
IF so, did you run into anything difficult that most average joe woodworkers couldn't handle?
No, I was lucky and got them second hand but I would rather get a cabinet maker to at least pre cut the wood accurately, unless you have all the gear its a big risk, they are expensive drive units and a shame to have them spoilt by a poor cabinet.
This is an old SEAS kit, called SEAS Njord. I think it's nice. Should have a solid bass foundation. It's not wildly different in concept to the SEAS A26 kit:
http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=475:seas-a26-kit&catid=66:seas-diy-kits&Itemid=365
You could use the modern H1288-08 CA22RNX and almost any 25mm SEAS tweeter you fancy. TWEETERS
I'd do a more sophisticated 2nd order bass/3rd order tweeter 3kHz crossover, but you won't go far wrong with the basic idea. I think you could do a smaller cabinet too.
http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=475:seas-a26-kit&catid=66:seas-diy-kits&Itemid=365
You could use the modern H1288-08 CA22RNX and almost any 25mm SEAS tweeter you fancy. TWEETERS
I'd do a more sophisticated 2nd order bass/3rd order tweeter 3kHz crossover, but you won't go far wrong with the basic idea. I think you could do a smaller cabinet too.
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Steve, I can't help but chuckle a bit because hardly a post of yours does not have a schematic along with suggestions to solve an OP's problem. I don't know how you come up with these, but I do have to admire your gumption!
Well, speakerdoctor, you and I are people who love this hobby and actually build stuff! 😀
I must have built every combination of drivers under the sun over the years. Little ones and big ones. Simple filters and complex ones. We are really in the business of putting old heads on young shoulders. 🙂
Let's have a look at a variant of the SEAS Njord idea, the WLM La Scala.
6moons audio reviews: WLM La Scala
You might think the big box on the left is a good idea. But, TBH, only if you have a room the size of an aircraft hanger. Otherwise the smaller box will work better, because a small closed room makes the bass boomy. It's called room gain.
If I am honest, a three way works much better at every level with the same SEAS CA22RNX bass :
SEAS-3-Way-Classic
But since this our lovely hobby, I encourage relative noobs to have a go. You will get good sounds if you have a good idea. I still enjoy reducing the bass coil, and increasing the bass shunt capacitor proportionately. Part of my hobby. 😎
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Step Class is very popular here in California! Popular in Denmark too!
Time Coherence: Baffle Step vs. crossover phase rotation (Duelund)
SBAcoustics-3WC
SEAS-3-Way-Classic-mkII
AudioTechnology-3WC
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