Hi all,
This is my first post and really ive exhausted all other online avenues of research, so im looking for some advice/help...
I have a pair of Ruark Etude II bookshelf speakers. My insurance company gave them to me when my Rogers LS6 speakers were damaged in a flood. I have always liked them for voice playback..movies, tv etc, but they have always been too bright for my tastes in music playback. They are quite detailed but a bit dry in the bass and quite bright and even boxy sounding...ive gone back to using my LS6s despite the cabinets being a complete eyesore after the water damage.
Anyway, I've done some research and they contain a Seas 27tff H831 tweeter and a Vifa TC18WK07 woofer. Are these good components? Is there anything i can do to make them sound better? I have a soldering iron but my knowledge in electronics is very limited...fiddling with the crossover seems a bit daunting?!?
So im thinking either reduce the tweeter level through the crossover [no idea how to do], replace the tweeters, or replace the woofers with something to make the overall sound more balanced. 😕
I run them with a Naim Nait and Thorens Turntable, or with my Marantz Amp and tv/dvd.. For reference i have PMC DB1s+ in my music studio that i like...they are very neutral, and i used to have a pair of Dynaudio BM6 monitors that i really liked the sound of...but they had to go for the PMCs.
thanks for any help
This is my first post and really ive exhausted all other online avenues of research, so im looking for some advice/help...
I have a pair of Ruark Etude II bookshelf speakers. My insurance company gave them to me when my Rogers LS6 speakers were damaged in a flood. I have always liked them for voice playback..movies, tv etc, but they have always been too bright for my tastes in music playback. They are quite detailed but a bit dry in the bass and quite bright and even boxy sounding...ive gone back to using my LS6s despite the cabinets being a complete eyesore after the water damage.
Anyway, I've done some research and they contain a Seas 27tff H831 tweeter and a Vifa TC18WK07 woofer. Are these good components? Is there anything i can do to make them sound better? I have a soldering iron but my knowledge in electronics is very limited...fiddling with the crossover seems a bit daunting?!?
So im thinking either reduce the tweeter level through the crossover [no idea how to do], replace the tweeters, or replace the woofers with something to make the overall sound more balanced. 😕
I run them with a Naim Nait and Thorens Turntable, or with my Marantz Amp and tv/dvd.. For reference i have PMC DB1s+ in my music studio that i like...they are very neutral, and i used to have a pair of Dynaudio BM6 monitors that i really liked the sound of...but they had to go for the PMCs.
thanks for any help
Hi,
I've never listened to Etude 2 much less done any measurements. I can only say
I'm confident Ruark Acoustics knows how to make good sounding speakers.
I guess it would not make much sense to mess with x-over knowing you have
limited experience. You have said it yourself in other words.
Anyway, for what is worth, maybe you could try using tone controls on your Marantz.
This might help to sound less bright if that is what you are after.
For the DIY part, I can only advise to get a book or some other source
of information and take your time to study. Afterward you'll want a
simulation software and ultimately maybe you will end up buying a measurement
system to check whether practical results match with theory.
Surely this would be the most interesting part of your research and then after
couple of months/years you'll be able to go back to Ruark Etude 2 and
investigate if there was room for any kind of improvement.
If you are really into this great hobby, you will want to have it all and that
is not going to happen without above mentioned steps to the promised land.
What you describe would be a relatively minor crossover tweak, depending on how it's designed.
It would be hard to "guess" values though, unless you're prepared to measure them and see exactly what they're doing and what you'd like to change about what they do.
Do they have a bi-wire terminal cup? All the pictures and info I can find don't show the back.
It would be hard to "guess" values though, unless you're prepared to measure them and see exactly what they're doing and what you'd like to change about what they do.
Do they have a bi-wire terminal cup? All the pictures and info I can find don't show the back.
I dont listen very loud really. Probably 10 or 11 o'clock on the dial. The amp is very punchy compared to the Marantz.
The back does have bi-wirable terminals. The crossover looks pretty simple, i'll see if i can take a photo over the weekend. The cabinets are really well made and look great, which is why im thinking if i can tweek the sound i'll keep em.
It seems like the drivers are reasonably good ones then?
Thanks for your input.
The back does have bi-wirable terminals. The crossover looks pretty simple, i'll see if i can take a photo over the weekend. The cabinets are really well made and look great, which is why im thinking if i can tweek the sound i'll keep em.
It seems like the drivers are reasonably good ones then?
Thanks for your input.
If it has bi-wire terminals, I'm guessing there's a metal strap that connects the positive and negative terminals. You're in luck! There's a relatively simple thing you can try to see if a little tweeter attenuation will make you happy with them.
What you can try, just for fun, is remove the metal strap that connects the positive terminals together and put a resistor in it's place. Make sure your speaker cables are connected to the lower terminals, or you'll attenuate the woofer instead of the tweeter.
I'd probably start with a 2 ohm resistor of at least 10 watts. Something like this: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=004-2
Give it a shot. It's cheap and hackey, but it'll work if the only problem is a little brightness.
Seas and Vifa make some good drivers, so i'd be surprised if that was the problem.
I'd try DrDynas idea first, as he said, it's quick and easy to try.
If you can draw out the crossover, that could be helpful. A lot of speakers have a resistor in series with the tweeter. Adding an Ohm or two on top of the original value could sort out your problem.
This is probably true. I like to play safe though, we don't have renters insurance at the moment 😉
Ok. Findings to date:-
I installed 5w 2.2 ohm resistors as suggested. The harshness has disappeared, but so has the air and liveliness 🙁
I may try 1.5 ohm next.
I also noticed something that I'd like your thoughts on...
When I plug the speaker cables into the top plugs, thus reducing the level of the woofer, it also sounds less harsh! So I took the speakers into my music studio and ran sound through a professional sweep able Eq unit. I noticed that the frequencies around 3.3k were the nasty sounding ones. I know that the Ruark Prologue II uses the same drivers and has a crossover frequency of 3.2kHz. So it would seem that the point at which the crossover happens is the same point of the harshness I'm hearing.
I'll try them one more time in the studio and put a little cut on the signal around 3.2k and see if this improves the sound.
I installed 5w 2.2 ohm resistors as suggested. The harshness has disappeared, but so has the air and liveliness 🙁
I may try 1.5 ohm next.
I also noticed something that I'd like your thoughts on...
When I plug the speaker cables into the top plugs, thus reducing the level of the woofer, it also sounds less harsh! So I took the speakers into my music studio and ran sound through a professional sweep able Eq unit. I noticed that the frequencies around 3.3k were the nasty sounding ones. I know that the Ruark Prologue II uses the same drivers and has a crossover frequency of 3.2kHz. So it would seem that the point at which the crossover happens is the same point of the harshness I'm hearing.
I'll try them one more time in the studio and put a little cut on the signal around 3.2k and see if this improves the sound.
Let us know how it goes.
On reducing the level of the woofer, there's a few possibilities. It could be cone breakup, but it seems bizarre that Ruark would have left the notch filter out of the crossover that would address it. Perhaps there are electrolytic capacitors in the crossover that have gone bad.
Depending on how much cut you have to introduce to get them to sound pleasant to you, it might still be a relatively minor affair to adjust them to your liking, such as a slightly larger primary inductor in the low pass section.
On reducing the level of the woofer, there's a few possibilities. It could be cone breakup, but it seems bizarre that Ruark would have left the notch filter out of the crossover that would address it. Perhaps there are electrolytic capacitors in the crossover that have gone bad.
Depending on how much cut you have to introduce to get them to sound pleasant to you, it might still be a relatively minor affair to adjust them to your liking, such as a slightly larger primary inductor in the low pass section.
I had another listen this evening. With the 2.2 ohm resistors in place I added 1.5 to 2dB hi shelving Eq at 8k that brought the speakers back to life. So basically scooped the upper mids I guess.
The area around 3k seems to be the problem area. These speakers are excellent to play my tv through as the dialogue comes through crystal clear. It's just that forwardness is almost painful on quite a few of my CDs.
Hmmm
The area around 3k seems to be the problem area. These speakers are excellent to play my tv through as the dialogue comes through crystal clear. It's just that forwardness is almost painful on quite a few of my CDs.
Hmmm
Are you able to take a peek at the crossover to see if there are any obviously damaged components?
I'd still try and draw out the crossover.
Have you tried hooking up the woofers on their own ? If the problem is coming from the woofer, you could increase the inductor value, or, if it's a second order electrical, you could add a cap in parallel to the existing cap to increase the roll off.
Have you tried hooking up the woofers on their own ? If the problem is coming from the woofer, you could increase the inductor value, or, if it's a second order electrical, you could add a cap in parallel to the existing cap to increase the roll off.
This is a common area to tweak. You may be able to make a small change to the crossover to make it permanent, but installing an EQ with the two settings might be useful.
here is a photo of the crossover. woofer at the bottom, tweeter at the top.
Blue cap at the bottom right says 8MFD, 50VNP, 10%
top left blue thing says 7J160Vdc.
one of the woofer terminals is hidden by the inductor.
i'll try to listen to the woofers on their own on the weekend.
Basically i think the frequencies around 3.2kHz should be cut a bit, but id like to keep the high frequencies as they are currently. 1-2 dB was enough when EQing to improve the sound. If the speakers managed to put out a little bit more bass that would be great, but i doubt they have much more to give really.
Blue cap at the bottom right says 8MFD, 50VNP, 10%
top left blue thing says 7J160Vdc.
one of the woofer terminals is hidden by the inductor.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
i'll try to listen to the woofers on their own on the weekend.
Basically i think the frequencies around 3.2kHz should be cut a bit, but id like to keep the high frequencies as they are currently. 1-2 dB was enough when EQing to improve the sound. If the speakers managed to put out a little bit more bass that would be great, but i doubt they have much more to give really.
You're very lucky in that it's a well laid-out board and a fairly simple filter. Experiment with the value of the coil in the woofer circuit. Increasing it slightly may tone down the amount of upper treble that the woofer produces, which could be the source of your harshness, as you said the resistor on the woofer helped as well.
Honestly, you could probably get a few different values for the woofer coil and capacitor to try out. For testing purposes, if you decide to try a higher value for that coil, you should be able to add it much the same way you did with the resistor, but plug your speaker cable into the top terminal.
You may also wish to measure (if you have access to an LCR meter) the electrolytic cap in the woofer circuit to make sure it's not floated too far away from it's specification. Honestly, the 8uF 50V cap might be cheap enough that replacing it might not be a bad idea, like some of these here:
Solen 8 mfd Fast Cap 400V: Madisound Speaker Store
Does the inductor in the woofer circuit have any scribble on it that might indicate it's value?
Honestly, you could probably get a few different values for the woofer coil and capacitor to try out. For testing purposes, if you decide to try a higher value for that coil, you should be able to add it much the same way you did with the resistor, but plug your speaker cable into the top terminal.
You may also wish to measure (if you have access to an LCR meter) the electrolytic cap in the woofer circuit to make sure it's not floated too far away from it's specification. Honestly, the 8uF 50V cap might be cheap enough that replacing it might not be a bad idea, like some of these here:
Solen 8 mfd Fast Cap 400V: Madisound Speaker Store
Does the inductor in the woofer circuit have any scribble on it that might indicate it's value?
How do I find out the value of the coils? They are glue to the mdf board. Are you saying I can get some and hook them up between the speaker inputs on the back like I did with the resistors? If so what value should I try. Lastly...is the coil an inductor? 😛
There are a number of ways of finding the value of the coil (the inductor), but they are not straightforward unless you use a multimeter with this function. If you can't measure the value, you might try simply adding inductance.
I was going to suggest something different. Based on your comments earlier you might try reducing the tweeter's capacitance.
I was going to suggest something different. Based on your comments earlier you might try reducing the tweeter's capacitance.
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