Request To Moderator

Hello Jason and Grey,

I am asking that a member here who identifies himself only as 'slicemaster101' be eliminated from this forum for his repeated usage of hostile and vulgar language before the good spirit and conduct of this forum is destroyed and good and valuable members retreat.

Sincerely, Eric.

Other members please feel free to support this motion - thanks.
 

paulb

Member
2001-06-01 4:53 pm
Calgary
I skimmed through the thread. While I did find slice's response to be a hostile tirade and this should be discouraged, I also found there to be a smug and condescending tone to some of the "advice" he (she?) was given leading up to it.
Members are free to take or leave the advice they get here. No need for others to get upset if they are not listened to. Most people need to make a few of their own mistakes before they learn to listen to others.
I also feel there's no need to respond to the tirade on a sentence-by-sentence basis. Part of getting along means dealing with an angry and abusive individual without responding in kind. By responding, you are just escalating the situation.
Locking out a member is a drastic action and would set a precedent; this should be considered carefully. Much easier just to not respond.
 
Eric,
Yeah, it looked a bit rude. I responded in that thread, but as Paul noted, others were there before me.
I appreciate having things brought to my notice. I can't cover all the threads any more, and the speaker forum is one area I rarely get to these days.
People, for whatever reason, tend to come into audio with preconceived notions as to difficulty. Some think it's harder than it really is; others think it's easier than it is because they see the finished product and don't realize how many decisions were made to get there. There's often a period of readjustment as folks get up to speed.
Some make that adaptation more gracefully than others...

Grey
 
I say give the kid a chance. He seems to have a chip on his shoulder that is as big as Alaska, but the other kids on the forum, who he may listen to, are coming in and seem to be straightening him out.

For hifi to continue we need an influx of kids... and even when one is acting like one, we need to show a little more patience, than say if i went off the deep end.

dave
 
"... frontal lobe damage ..."

All,

when i entered this forum in February, there was no reason to post moral smartassing and negative smilies, only happy talk about DIY-audio ... .i enjoyed it so much (sigh)

I had to read twice thru the thread to be moderately sure Slicemaster101 is not a sockpuppet (as was hinted in the thread).

Noone here is blamed for his age or relative lack of knowledge, in fact most of us enthuse in giving all help possible. Some of them showing as much patience as Dave did. Compliment, Dave! Agreed, we need influx of kids.

But Slice did whine around concerning his age, lack of knowledge, migraine, whatever (i know of other forum members having heavy and almost permanent migraine or other severe health problems and i have rarely read a rude word of any of them). Whereas Slice used his minor personal shortcomings (maybe real to him, but virtual they appear to me) as an excuse to use faecal language and behave like the proverbial rat in the bucket, and xtendedly and repeatedly so. Which is a major personal shortcoming IMO.

He appeared to seek advice, but in fact the only thing he wanted is to have his opinions and prejudices backupped. Instead he got advice and blew his top on it as far as the advice deviated from his wishful thinking.

Mehopes he reads it and works on himself to improve.

Eric,
Can happen i criticize another diyAudio member now and then, can be i am tough on it. But did you observe i left the path of complaining about facts and statements and started to attack the member personally?

Do you think it was ok to discuss Slice's mental/medical condition? I would consider that utterly rude, too. I would consider that only slightly better than discussing his sister's or mother's promiscuity an other moral flaws.

C'mon, let's discuss my mental shortcomings, dare you? :mad:

Bernhard
 

arnach

Member
2001-04-07 10:03 pm
USA
Treatment

I don't deserve any special treatment because I'm 17 years old and neither does any one else of any age. Those who know more know more because they have studied more, listented more, observed more. Age should not play a factor in this forum except when immaturity comes into play, which constitutes an abuse of the dedicated people who contribute to this forum. I have too much pride to grovel on my knees: "I'm 17 years old I don't get it!! Help me or I'll complain! HELP HELP!" Absolutely not. Browse the forums, search for answers, visit dealers, ask your physics teaher, read literature, read aticles, and if the question is still unanswered, ask it, but you or me or anyone else is not *owed* a response.
 
Hiya Bernard,
C'mon, let's discuss my mental shortcomings, dare you?

I do not think that you have any such shortcomings.
You do have much knowledge and experience, and you are a gifted communicator of this, and I honour and respect you for that.

Kind regards, Eric.

Call me old fashioned, but if a youngster has the temerity to direct impertinant and inappropriate language to me, or others, I consider it neccesary to illuminate the error of his ways, and no regrets from me if his ego is dented.
Acceptable behaviour in a society or community is a learned skill, and sometimes needs to be reinforced IME.
 
Eric,

1st,
have considerable mental shortcomings, (apart from the fact that it is sometimes raining into my nose, i am not to discuss them in detail here)

2nd,
i had not the dented ego of a spoiled brat in mind, but i do perform myself what i ask from others and if i do complain about lack of mutual respect and bad manners, i feel i should call it by the name instead of back-insulting because, myself being insulting, i am not better than him.

3rd,
you must be an Australian (is this an insult now, Bernhard? :confused: ... :) )
 
The whole topic of manners is an interesting one, if for no other reason than it's so relative--to culture, to era, to the person's age (kids do things to each other that adults won't tolerate, and vice versa), to nationality, etc. etc. etc.
I know that some of the things that we say/do on a daily basis around here would have horrified my grandmother. She was from a different era, entirely. However, we think nothing of it. Things that pass as okay with Bernhard in Germany might or might not make the cut in the US or Australia. I, on the other hand, could very easily make a fool of myself in Germany. An example, the hand sign that we in the US use to indicate 'okay,' thumb and forefinger circled, means ******* in Brazil, so I'm told. It's so easy to make a mistake like that.
"When in Rome, do as the Romans do," makes the implicit assumption that <i>you</i> know what it is that Romans do. If you don't...well...
That said, there are certain transgressions that are easy to spot. One is to use words known to be regarded as vulgar in the universal sense. The terms for certain body parts and bodily byproducts are always considered in bad taste; the words may change, but once you know that a certain word indicates a certain thing, it's best to approach it with caution in polite society.
(That's not to say that we're overly polite around here, but that's a separate issue.)
I think it's safe to say that the intent of the post was to wound or inflame the people that Slicemaster was referring to. There was no mistaken use of words. He chose the words he used precisely because they have the power to upset people. That was, from my perspective, a little (okay, maybe a lot) overdone.
Was age a factor? Hmmm. Difficult question. I don't think so. Let me rephrase it as: Was maturity a factor? I think it's likely. Maturity isn't necessarily related to age. We've got some teens here who I'd be proud to call my own. We've got some adults who...well...the less said, the better.
I don't claim to be perfect, myself, but I do try to avoid cussin' at people. I manage to rattle cages quite enough without that. Given that we do have members who are younger, I'd prefer to keep the language down more on the G to PG level. Setting aside members, we have no way of knowing what age our visitors are, and if we were to have a precocious eight year-old, for instance, whose parents happened to look over his/her shoulder and see some of the words that were getting bandied about, that kid would be denied permission to come back.
That would be sad.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not a goody-goody, myself. I cuss and fuss quite a bit. But I try to keep it down to an occassional hell or damn while online. Given that those words show up in the comics (even here in the Bible Belt), I figure that they're fair game...but I still keep it to a minimum. At best, it's the salt on the potato. Taken to extremes, you've got a mouth full of salt, and no potato at all.
No, I'm not inclined to shut Slice out. Not yet. We've had a member or two who started off in much the same way, but settled down to become productive folks with intent to learn. But that doesn't mean that I have infinite patience with infantile tirades, either. I understand that he felt provoked, but aside from his asking for advice, then getting upset when it wasn't what he wanted to hear, I feel that his reaction was out of proportion even to (I'm trying to put myself in his shoes) the perceived insult or injury.
Slice is welcome to participate in the DIY community here, but I expect to see more mature behavior on his part. If he's truly being picked on unjustly, someone let me know, and I'll defend Slice. But I do expect a sense of balance, of proportion, on his part.

Grey
 
The status is, indeed, subject to inflation. There are several members who regularly make posts with zero 'help' content. A little of that kind of thing doesn't hurt anything--the right sort of information can help round out your image of that member as an actual living, breathing human being by letting you know about their other interests, their day job, what kind of music they like, etc. But if you see someone who routinely makes posts with no real information at all, it generally falls into one of three categories: Ego, logorrhea, or they're trying to increase their number of posts.
This last category increased (for whatever reason) after I got near, then hit 1000 posts. Suddenly, a number of people started making empty posts. Kinda like the old movie about the gunslinger who everybody wanted to test themselves against; sooner or later, you know he's going down. Anybody wants to pass me...fine. Let 'em go.
Actually, come to think of it, there's another category. Some people just need to get a life. Anyone who spends all day, every day in here is neglecting to feel the sun on their face, spend time with friends and family, and so forth. It's all right to get immersed in a project, but there's a limit even to that. You shouldn't forget to be a human being.
Perhaps in the final analysis, this is what happened with Slice. He was just obsessing over his speaker project and lost perspective.
Your point is well taken. We had some discussion about this sort of thing a while back, but when you think about it, there's no arbitrary level that people can't hit--whether on purpose or otherwise--if they simply sit down and make a lot of posts.
We could enforce a stringent rule that every word of every post must be about audio, and only about audio. Perhaps in some manner, we could derive a rule that would indicate to people not to whine PLEASE HELP, PLEASE HELP...but I, for one, wouldn't be comfortable with such draconian measures. So I'm afraid we're stuck with a certain number of people who abuse the system in one way or another. It's unfortunate, but there it is. It's no worse than the outside world; you'll always have some bozo who wants to toot his ego, or get ahead at others' expense, or whine and throw tantrums. That's life. If I could think of a way to make this site an idealized reflection of human existence, I'd do it, but until someone comes up with the crucial suggestion as to how to do that--'cause I sure don't have a clue--then we'll have to do the best we can.
Chin up...we've survived worse crises than this one.

Grey
 
Originally posted by GRollins If I could think of a way to make this site an idealized reflection of human existence, I'd do it, but until someone comes up with the crucial suggestion as to how to do that--'cause I sure don't have a clue--then we'll have to do the best we can.

I was thinking over griff's comment, and came to the same conclusion... the number of posts someone has made -- and their subsequent "title" is just a measure of how many posts they have made.

When the survey (and extended capabilities that tech gives) are on-line, a facility for nominating & giving members some earned designation might be an idea... actually this could happen in a thread, just as this thread has essentially been a "trial" for slice's behaviour on the list.

for instance, both Dice45 & Thatch_ear could get some recognition for being dipolmats, and you, Grey, are given a great deal of respect and i can see why when i run across a thread where you are contributing.

dave
 
Dave,

Dice45 & Thatch_ear could get some recognition for being dipolmats,

no, do not use mats as dipoles, i use paper cone drivers for that :) . Me diplomat, that was a good one! me ! :).
However, thank you for the compliment and thank you too, Eric, for your recent compliments.

But back to topic, methinks it is not a good idea if members grade other members, possible consequences are scary. In the same context, excluding wrongdoers creates martyrs and also does not prevent the person to come back using a new moniker and flame around. Not a good idea ...
Instead let them stay and sit in their own mess for a while, feeling miserable, and respond only to contributions and constructive thoughts and good vibrations, leave the bad vibrations w/o response -- Way better :)

Grey,
agreed with what you say.
yes, me too would be proud to have some of our youngster-Elders as son! And this has not only to do with their maturity but also with the enthusiastic, positive spirit they are spreading :)

Things that pass as okay with Bernhard in Germany might or might not make the cut in the US or Australia. I, on the other hand, could very easily make a fool of myself in Germany. An example, the hand sign that we in the US use to indicate 'okay,' thumb and forefinger circled, means ******* in Brazil, so I'm told. It's so easy to make a mistake like that. "When in Rome, do as the Romans do," makes the implicit assumption that you know what it is that Romans do. If you don't...well... That said, there are certain transgressions that are easy to spot. One is to use words known to be regarded as vulgar in the universal sense. The terms for certain body parts and bodily byproducts are always considered in bad taste; the words may change, but once you know that a certain word indicates a certain thing, it's best to approach it with caution in polite society.

1st,
may i sound as strong sometimes as i obvioulsy do, but i am certainly not the reference what passes in Germany and what not and i do not want it to be (observing the manners happening around me and particularly in German-Language forums, i have to admit to myself i come from an extinct breed).

2nd,
your example would work in Germany, too. You also can use both thumbs and forefingers to form a bigger one or both arms for a kingsize one. :) and you would be surprised how many people know how to count to (only) 4 in binary format.

Grey, the transgressions you mention happen on a very fundamental level and cannot be excused by not knowing how to behave as a Roman. It is self-centeredness teamed with utter lack of respect. Everything else unpleasant being a symptom of those causes. And AFAIR from my historical studies and lectures, there existed not any society honouring that. It has been banned in all areas, eras as long as the particualr society was healthy. When it was doomed, well, then rude manners, reckless exploitation of the weak, soiled public washrooms, lack of mutual respect surfaced on a wide basis.

... So I'm afraid we're stuck with a certain number of people who abuse the system in one way or another. It's unfortunate, but there it is. It's no worse than the outside world; you'll always have some bozo who wants to toot his ego, or get ahead at others' expense, or whine and throw tantrums. ..
Yes and if the response this sort of abuse is unpleasant (If e.g. the abuser seeks attention, the worst thing he can get is being ignored) and if reponse to positive contributions is comforting and acknowledging, we have the chance the person learns by it. and changes status from subhuman to human :)

Apart from that, maybe slice's elders have skipped to show him certain rules and techiques how to get along with others for reasons probably understandable but not to be discussed here and now he has to suffer under the responses (no offense meant to you or your elders, slice). He is 17, he still can learn and work on his personality.
So let's give him a chance or two.
 
I'm still working on my personality too :D....

I agree that some people here have acted in a commenable way given the recent events. I'm up to somewhere around 900 posts now and I know how much i've learned from my experience here but i know i still have much to learn. There are a number of people on this board who's technical knowledge i respect greatly and I will refrain from listing all the names as I know I will forget to mention many of them. To those of you whom i refer, you know how you are .... Thank you. Special Thanks goto Grey Rollins and Jason as without them this board would not exist.

I am a big supporter of the user rating scheme, posts counts simply measure the number of postings a user has made, they cannot measure the knowledge of the user or the relevancy of the post. I would be just as happy to be a neophyte as an Elder the title as it refers to me really doesnt mean anything to me. There are many people I have had run ins with over the months I have been here, that is all but inevitable in a community as large and diverse as this. Having said that, I hope that in all such situations, the other member involved has not retained any negativity toward me as I have no such feelings toward any of them. We all have egos some larger than others that is natural but it is my sincere hope that we do not let them get in the way of what we have here. It's been said before and I'll say it again, if you have nothing useful or friendly to say it is best left unsaid. There are a few users who are highly knowledgeable but who's postings are often useless because they either post something completely unrelated, or they cannot lower themselves enough to respond in a manner that is appropriate to the level of knowledge that another person possesses.

Here's to another year of diyAudio.

Cheers,
Daniel aka AudioFreak.