Refoaming Question -- Airplane Glue?

[Bamalama]

Hello.

I got a kit to refoam a pair of JBL woofers, and the glue that they sent appears to be just a tube of model airplane glue.

This deviates from what pretty much everyone else uses, and I don't have a good feeling about it.

Does anyone have experience that would be useful regarding this matter?

 

[vacuphile]

What I use is water based contact glue, some sort of PVA formulation, white in appearance. It stays sticky even when dry.

 

[cliffforrest]

+1. Easily found as woodworker's PVA glue.

 

[sreten]

Hi,

Foam and paper - PVA is likely your best best.
Rubber and plastic - model aeroplane glue.

rgds, sreten.

 

[bear]

Woodworking glue for a metal (paint) to foam connection?
Not for me. Thanks.

Styrene model cement glue for rubber surround to metal/paint?
Not for me. Thanks.

The solvent in model cement glue will usually attack the foam. NG.

Find and use proper adhesives for these applications.
In the USA 3M company has a wide range of adhesives.
USA and worldwide Henkel sells a very wide range of adhesive products.

Many find their way into the "consumer" stream - some are in crafts and model shops too, automotive applications, depending on which ones and for what.

You could also always as a professional recone shop what they use. They might tell you.

_-_-

Frankly, although they are a bit tricky to work with, in terms of long term stability and
actual adhesion, water based contact cement is a good bet if all else fails.

 

[Bamalama]

Woodworking glue for a metal (paint) to foam connection?
Not for me. Thanks.

Styrene model cement glue for rubber surround to metal/paint?
Not for me. Thanks.

The solvent in model cement glue will usually attack the foam. NG.


You could also always as a professional recone shop what they use. They might tell you.

The shop that sent me this stuff is a "professional recone shop". I put some of in on another surround and it squirmed like a half-squished bug.

 

[Lojzek]

I have used a contact neoprene glue for the surround and
spider jobs with success. Sticks to polypropylene too.

 

[Bamalama]

Find and use proper adhesives for these applications.
In the USA 3M company has a wide range of adhesives.
USA and worldwide Henkel sells a very wide range of adhesive products.

Many find their way into the "consumer" stream - some are in crafts and model shops too, automotive applications, depending on which ones and for what.

I don't think I see any useful information in here.

 

[vacuphile]

I don't think I see any useful information in here.

Bamalama, you are ungrateful. Based on my advise you could have found this link https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/more-info/340-076-parts-express-more-info.pdf yourself.

Not all PVA-based glues is woodworkers glue. The latter hardens, the former doesn't.

 

[picowallspeaker]

I put some of in on another surround and it squirmed like a half-squished bug.

I've used twice ( not very experienced but...) some "universal adhesive" which is the yellowish one you'd use for your shoes etc.
Indeed it contains : metil-ciclo-esane; ethyl acetate; acetone; t-Butylphenol-formaldehyde condensation resin; rosin, colofonia which are the solvents.
As Bear said, it's the one kind of adhesive that is confortable with metal ( speaker's basket ) but not so friendly with foam, as the heating process in the first seconds makes the foam enlarge, but don't panic. After one minut it returns to its original form. It's been 3 years and two years that I've made the suspension and it holds. I'm waiting for another pair of suspensions this week
and I'm a little puzzled: probably I'll be using PVA glue for the cone and the aggressive one for the basket

 

[operaman]

Use the glue that came with the kit, it works fine. Don't worry; be happy.

 

[bear]

I don't think I see any useful information in here.

Two suppliers that undoubtedly have products intended to bond the two surfaces you wish to bond??

Try looking at their application guides, or call their application assistance phone number?

Or, maybe you want me to do that for you and supply you with the product too?

I can't advise you as to what I use, since it is only available to companies in the speaker/audio business... if there was more of a demand (there isn't, it seems) I would consider repackaging small quantities for DIY use. Also, it is generally sold in 5gal pails or at minimum 1 gal containers to those who buy regularly. FYI.

Sorry that my post did not satisfy you.
_-_-

 

[Bamalama]

....but not so friendly with foam, as the heating process in the first seconds makes the foam enlarge, but don't panic. After one minute it returns to its original form. It's been 3 years and two years that I've made the suspension and it holds. I'm waiting for another pair of suspensions this week and I'm a little puzzled: probably I'll be using PVA glue for the cone and the aggressive one for the basket

Thanks, that's good.

I have a couple half-bottles of the white stuff that some surround suppliers provide. I'll just pretend that that's PVA in the absence of any labeling. I actually was thinking what you're thinking -- to use the white stuff on the cone and the other stuff on the basket.

I believe that by and large, water evaporates more slowly than solvent. My concern is that the solvent-based airplane glue would be almost dry by the time I got all the way around the cone, and then I'd have an irreparable mess. On the basket it doesn't matter if it sets rapidly, by then everything's in place.

 

[chrisb]

Did anyone yet mention that PVA is a class / family of glue types, not a single formulation?
Depending on additives and manufacturing processes, they can range from the familiar white "Elmer's " that retains a degree of elasticity after curing, to cross-linked varieties such as Franklin's Titebond II or III that cure much harder and are the glue of choice for unfinished wood to wood joinery in our own commercial Millwork shop.
A buddy of mine has been repairing surrounds for at least 20yrs and he notes that OTC white glues may not be your best bet- the proprietary formulations that accompanying reforming kits from folks like Simply Speakers, or perhaps Parts Express, are well worth the extra$ - unless you want to consider your first repair as a trial run

 

[JMFahey]

You *think* it's "model airplane" glue because that is all you have experience with and assume anything smelling solvents is the same , as thinking all PVA glues is the same.
Sorry, we can't fix your problem.

I would assume that glue sent with a kit, from a reconer supply shop, "should" be suitable.

Yes, solvents in general soften foam and it may twist ... I often use neoprene type contact cement (contains toluene and xylene) and that happens ... in 5 minutes solvents evaporate, foam recovers original shape and adhesive is sticky as it should.

I also use PVA , good quality carpenter's glue, not school kiddie homework stuff but the real thing and it also works very well , both joining foam to paper or polypropylene cone and foam to metal frame, painted or not.

PVA glues are all white while liquid, but the pure stuff dries translucent ; kiddie grade dries white as if it had chalk dust mixed in, because they actually have some industrial grade starch mixed in, for various purposes: thicken/cheapen it, increase "solids content" for peanuts and most important for kids' Moms: it's "washable" from Junior's clothing, so if instead of the cheapest of the cheap you buy Carpenter grade from a paint/hardware shop you'll be fine.

 

[Bamalama]

You *think* it's "model airplane" glue because that is all you have experience with and assume anything smelling solvents is the same , as thinking all PVA glues is the same.
Sorry, we can't fix your problem.

Okay class, what is the problem with these two statements?

 

[chrisb]

Well, aside from the terse parsing and slight whiff of condescension, it's mostly factual - except for the statement that

PVA glues are all white while liquid

- many commonly used yellow and sandy brown carpentry glues are PVA based, as opposed to hide glue, epoxies, etc -none of the yellowish glues I've ever used dry a translucent colour lighter than when wet
Parts Express 340-076

 

[Bamalama]

Use the glue that came with the kit, it works fine. Don't worry; be happy.

This might be the most intelligent post in this whole thing.

But I still am worried that the stuff will dry before I get all the way around.

 

[CraigSu]

You didn't identify the supplier of your refoam kit so it's hard to comment without knowing specifics, however, if the kit came from Simply Speakers you will have plenty of time. Just last week I used their kit to refoam a pair of 25-year old Madisound 10208 10" woofers. These are poly cones with a stamped steel frame. It took me far longer to clean off the old foam than it did to apply the new surrounds. Proper prep work takes time. The glue with their kit does smell like "model airplane glue" but is very elastic at first and takes a couple minutes of working before it really grabs and starts to set. Don't feel like you have to rush it. I watched their YouTube video a couple of times and then had it running while working on each step. I kept the remote handy to be able to pause and rewind if I felt I didn't quite understand the proper methodology.

 

[Bamalama]

Thank you.