Because this Thread :
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6083&perpage=15&pagenumber=1
where Nelson sayd :
run another direction:
I want to ask, and maybe Nelson is able to say something more,
what are good speaker to fit with the Zen amps?
I searched TAD and found the make studiomonitors like:
MODEL 2251
SPECIFICATIONS
Impedance 8ohm
Reproduct. Freq. Zone 32-25,000 Hz
Input Capacity Max 500W
Output Sound Pressure Level 93db
Max Output Sound Pressure Level 120db(1m)
Crossover Frequency 950Hz
Shell Size 450(W)x650(H)x450(D) (including grill, enclosure depth 420mm)
Weight 47kg
Whatever this baby may cost and how to buy - is that the right for a Zen?
Or is polydax - p10 sayd aka audax , this right?
http://www.audaxspeaker.de/aktuell.htm
Or if your advice is DIY, will passdiy ever have a projekt of a ZEN friendly Loudspeaker system?
Thanks,Till
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6083&perpage=15&pagenumber=1
where Nelson sayd :
run another direction:
I want to ask, and maybe Nelson is able to say something more,
what are good speaker to fit with the Zen amps?
I searched TAD and found the make studiomonitors like:
MODEL 2251
SPECIFICATIONS
Impedance 8ohm
Reproduct. Freq. Zone 32-25,000 Hz
Input Capacity Max 500W
Output Sound Pressure Level 93db
Max Output Sound Pressure Level 120db(1m)
Crossover Frequency 950Hz
Shell Size 450(W)x650(H)x450(D) (including grill, enclosure depth 420mm)
Weight 47kg
Whatever this baby may cost and how to buy - is that the right for a Zen?
Or is polydax - p10 sayd aka audax , this right?
http://www.audaxspeaker.de/aktuell.htm
Or if your advice is DIY, will passdiy ever have a projekt of a ZEN friendly Loudspeaker system?
Thanks,Till
Alright, first the TAD. Long the favorite of many studios,
it's hard to wrong with TAD. In my opinion, they are worth
the bucks, but you are approaching Wilson territory for
prices.
Polydax makes some Pro drivers, not the regular stuff,
that has what it takes. Not as good as TAD, but certainly
a lot cheaper.
Don't neglect PHL and Fostex. Check them all out.
Also, these aren't the only things out there. We have been
on a quest for several years, with Cyclotron Guy gathering
up every candidate we can find. This is ripe territory for
DIYers, and personally I find that there are some real gems
in the high sensitivity category.
it's hard to wrong with TAD. In my opinion, they are worth
the bucks, but you are approaching Wilson territory for
prices.
Polydax makes some Pro drivers, not the regular stuff,
that has what it takes. Not as good as TAD, but certainly
a lot cheaper.
Don't neglect PHL and Fostex. Check them all out.
Also, these aren't the only things out there. We have been
on a quest for several years, with Cyclotron Guy gathering
up every candidate we can find. This is ripe territory for
DIYers, and personally I find that there are some real gems
in the high sensitivity category.
Thank You for answer!
As i mentioned elswhere, i don´t want to DIY Speaker at the moment, just because:
- it seems to be more komplex than the electric side of hifi.
- i have no measurement equipment which may be needed if take speakers serios.
- i have limited time and this i spent at the moment in understanding the " linear electronic " thing.
- every speaker i have seen until now somebody of the people i know build, was a mess. Good for loud but not for precision. I own a pair of speakers i recived damaged, about 15 years ago they were about 5 k dollar (I was never able to spent so much money...) and i replaced the chassis by new, they are still avaible. The chassis were 10% of these 5 k. I think this 2 are not bad, but i feel after building the CD Pro 2 , BoZ, and Zen v2, (v4 comes in the next few weeks ...) it would be worth trying other speakers.
Maybe these i own fit better for an aleph...
Ok , so i will go and see if i´m able to aim a pair of (used?) TAD s - next 5 years or so. Until now i found nobody who sells them in germany and TAD - Pioneer didn´t anser on email.
As i mentioned elswhere, i don´t want to DIY Speaker at the moment, just because:
- it seems to be more komplex than the electric side of hifi.
- i have no measurement equipment which may be needed if take speakers serios.
- i have limited time and this i spent at the moment in understanding the " linear electronic " thing.
- every speaker i have seen until now somebody of the people i know build, was a mess. Good for loud but not for precision. I own a pair of speakers i recived damaged, about 15 years ago they were about 5 k dollar (I was never able to spent so much money...) and i replaced the chassis by new, they are still avaible. The chassis were 10% of these 5 k. I think this 2 are not bad, but i feel after building the CD Pro 2 , BoZ, and Zen v2, (v4 comes in the next few weeks ...) it would be worth trying other speakers.
Maybe these i own fit better for an aleph...
Ok , so i will go and see if i´m able to aim a pair of (used?) TAD s - next 5 years or so. Until now i found nobody who sells them in germany and TAD - Pioneer didn´t anser on email.
One more post.....
I did some studys on Pioneer - TAD Website.
Would it be a good solution to buy a pair of TL1102, put in a a heavy wooden Box of maybe 150l Volume, buy a pair of TD2002 , try to find a plan for a Horn which may fit to TD 2002, build it out of wood, stick it into the wooden box, and biamp this with xover in preamp (@ ca 1kHz) with 2*2 Zen V4 ?
The minor problem would be the freeform building of a horn out of wood - to form a piece of wood is a common job for me. Only how to obtain a plan for a horn?
I did some studys on Pioneer - TAD Website.
Would it be a good solution to buy a pair of TL1102, put in a a heavy wooden Box of maybe 150l Volume, buy a pair of TD2002 , try to find a plan for a Horn which may fit to TD 2002, build it out of wood, stick it into the wooden box, and biamp this with xover in preamp (@ ca 1kHz) with 2*2 Zen V4 ?
The minor problem would be the freeform building of a horn out of wood - to form a piece of wood is a common job for me. Only how to obtain a plan for a horn?
Till,
you will have difficulties obtaining TAD-speakers in Germany. Pioneer is indeed the mother company, but they are not really importing those speakers to Germany. I once got a pair of PTR-9 tweeters from them, but this was very difficult and only led to success because I knew some "important" guys an Pioneer Deutschland quite well. And, not to forget, TAD is really expensive.
you will have difficulties obtaining TAD-speakers in Germany. Pioneer is indeed the mother company, but they are not really importing those speakers to Germany. I once got a pair of PTR-9 tweeters from them, but this was very difficult and only led to success because I knew some "important" guys an Pioneer Deutschland quite well. And, not to forget, TAD is really expensive.
Hallo Holger!
Ich bin zu arm um billig einzukaufen.
The most expensive way is to give the money away for something thats not satisfaying. Maybe TAD is expensive, but I trust more in the words of Mr. Pass than into the test reports of the magazine you earn your money with. I never read in Stereo or similar mags a Loudspeaker, amp, CDP, whatever, is bad - they are all sweet, fantastic, superior, ... . I´m not able to get any information out of this consumer stuff - advertisment industrie - hifi magazines. So i trsut in the advice i got by N.P.
I allready recognized it will be difficult to buy TAD in germany, but flights to USA are less than last year, and maybe someone over there will help me... lets see.
I´m willing to play around with different speakers , but "TAD isn´t available in germany and expensive" is a typical german answer to a mans question. A negative statement whithout advice to try something differnt. I ask for help, not for demotivation - you understand?
Nix für ungut, Till
Ich bin zu arm um billig einzukaufen.
The most expensive way is to give the money away for something thats not satisfaying. Maybe TAD is expensive, but I trust more in the words of Mr. Pass than into the test reports of the magazine you earn your money with. I never read in Stereo or similar mags a Loudspeaker, amp, CDP, whatever, is bad - they are all sweet, fantastic, superior, ... . I´m not able to get any information out of this consumer stuff - advertisment industrie - hifi magazines. So i trsut in the advice i got by N.P.
I allready recognized it will be difficult to buy TAD in germany, but flights to USA are less than last year, and maybe someone over there will help me... lets see.
I´m willing to play around with different speakers , but "TAD isn´t available in germany and expensive" is a typical german answer to a mans question. A negative statement whithout advice to try something differnt. I ask for help, not for demotivation - you understand?
Nix für ungut, Till
Till,
I am not on diyaudio.com for professional reasons, but for my very personal interests. So what you will I will post here hasn't got to do anything with the things I earn my money with - which is, as you certainly know - not DIY. It is because I am into buliding audio equipment for 23 years know. I would strongly recommend you to leave my daily business out of this board, okay?
And if I tell you that TAD in Germany is difficult and expensive, this is a very personal experience and certainly not for your demotivation.
Bleib locker Junge: Holger
I am not on diyaudio.com for professional reasons, but for my very personal interests. So what you will I will post here hasn't got to do anything with the things I earn my money with - which is, as you certainly know - not DIY. It is because I am into buliding audio equipment for 23 years know. I would strongly recommend you to leave my daily business out of this board, okay?
And if I tell you that TAD in Germany is difficult and expensive, this is a very personal experience and certainly not for your demotivation.
Bleib locker Junge: Holger
OK.
I don´t wont to bother you, but as you seem to have some knowledge in this materia, please could you give me some information - HOW expensive are these TAD products - if bought in the USA, and: Is there NO way to buy them in europe ?
- pioneer europe lists no complete speaker systems like in the USA :
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/P...rialAlbumForTAD/0,1435,30~3070~3070400,00.htm
but some chassis:
http://www.pioneer-eur.com/eur/product_overview.jsp?category_id=1083&taxonomy_id=43;203
So there should be a way to buy chassis.
Whats your advice for a -preferred not DIY but readymade - speaker for ZEN amps, not very large, preferred 2 way system suitable for komplex vocal music, "Präzise Wiedergabe, keine heavy metal monster, eher Phillip Glass)
Thank you, Till
pape.till@gmx.de
I don´t wont to bother you, but as you seem to have some knowledge in this materia, please could you give me some information - HOW expensive are these TAD products - if bought in the USA, and: Is there NO way to buy them in europe ?
- pioneer europe lists no complete speaker systems like in the USA :
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/P...rialAlbumForTAD/0,1435,30~3070~3070400,00.htm
but some chassis:
http://www.pioneer-eur.com/eur/product_overview.jsp?category_id=1083&taxonomy_id=43;203
So there should be a way to buy chassis.
Whats your advice for a -preferred not DIY but readymade - speaker for ZEN amps, not very large, preferred 2 way system suitable for komplex vocal music, "Präzise Wiedergabe, keine heavy metal monster, eher Phillip Glass)
Thank you, Till
pape.till@gmx.de
Pioneer used to import some TAD drivers for several german oem customers - Martion in Berlin for example. As far as I know, they do not any more because the quantities were too low.
I do not know about the rest of europe.
To give you a hint on prices: a pair of PTR-9 would have been selling for nearly 1000 Euros in Germany.
Giving tips on finding a suitable speaker is not too easy becouse I have no listening experience with a ZEN amp.
What I generally like a lot with amplifiers calling for effective speakers is: http://www.triangle-fr.com/comete-202-gb.htm
I do not know about the rest of europe.
To give you a hint on prices: a pair of PTR-9 would have been selling for nearly 1000 Euros in Germany.
Giving tips on finding a suitable speaker is not too easy becouse I have no listening experience with a ZEN amp.
What I generally like a lot with amplifiers calling for effective speakers is: http://www.triangle-fr.com/comete-202-gb.htm
I the US the TAD drivers start around $600 and go up
to the $900 category. The wooden horns cost like
$2500, so there is an opportunity for DIYers to save
some money.
We have experience with 1601 woofers, 1201's, 1101's,
2001's, 4001,s and the PTR9.
The drivers are very very good, but the compression drivers
are very horn dependent.
to the $900 category. The wooden horns cost like
$2500, so there is an opportunity for DIYers to save
some money.
We have experience with 1601 woofers, 1201's, 1101's,
2001's, 4001,s and the PTR9.
The drivers are very very good, but the compression drivers
are very horn dependent.
Check out Lambda Acoustics for drivers.
http://www.lambdacoustics.com
If kits fit your bill :
Bottlehead
Hammer Dynamics
SMathews
http://www.lambdacoustics.com
If kits fit your bill :
Bottlehead
Hammer Dynamics
SMathews
tad 1102
Hi
The TAD 1102 is an exceptional speaker. Really really smooth and great soundstage. Avoid the TAD 2002 .. The TAD 2001 is better and cheaper.
Yes TAD is expensive, bust IMO the very best, but you have to treat it right, it's really shows your playing system because beryllium is uncoulored in sound. If you do not bi amp, and need resistor, there is only one solution - pure carbon. Check out Steen Duelunds website, he makes some really good ones and they damm cheap too.
The PHL stuff is totally overrated IMO and expensive too. The 3451 is OK, but the rest, from bad to ok.....
A really great unit for low cost is actually Phillip Lesages Audax HT210. It's ungly, but cheap cheap. Paper cone, but evetual cone it with whatever you like - just a bit to take some of the paper whistle. But TAD is the real deal, if your aydio system is smooth.
Old Coral stuff like Coral M-100 driver is fabelous. It's a JBL le-85 clone, but has a diaphram of nine lags of metal!!!!!
It's a sweet sound unit and it's much more foregiving than the TAD stuff.
The TAD 1102 needs a least 40 Litre, but a SE tube amp will say at least 90 litre for a proper Q. And when it goes prety deep, though a nice sub will suit it.
tadman
Hi
The TAD 1102 is an exceptional speaker. Really really smooth and great soundstage. Avoid the TAD 2002 .. The TAD 2001 is better and cheaper.
Yes TAD is expensive, bust IMO the very best, but you have to treat it right, it's really shows your playing system because beryllium is uncoulored in sound. If you do not bi amp, and need resistor, there is only one solution - pure carbon. Check out Steen Duelunds website, he makes some really good ones and they damm cheap too.
The PHL stuff is totally overrated IMO and expensive too. The 3451 is OK, but the rest, from bad to ok.....
A really great unit for low cost is actually Phillip Lesages Audax HT210. It's ungly, but cheap cheap. Paper cone, but evetual cone it with whatever you like - just a bit to take some of the paper whistle. But TAD is the real deal, if your aydio system is smooth.
Old Coral stuff like Coral M-100 driver is fabelous. It's a JBL le-85 clone, but has a diaphram of nine lags of metal!!!!!
It's a sweet sound unit and it's much more foregiving than the TAD stuff.
The TAD 1102 needs a least 40 Litre, but a SE tube amp will say at least 90 litre for a proper Q. And when it goes prety deep, though a nice sub will suit it.
tadman
Hi tadman, Hi Ingvar, Hi miguel
This thread i started nearly 2 years ago, and the passlabs crew moved me on the right way - to diy speakers. The thread showing the process tzo the momentary state is:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=277463#post277463
I did buy 2001´ (arghh - this load of money!) and 1601a´ I had to wait half a year until the horndrivers were delivered to germany. I made some open baffle experiments in between also - using very cheap phillips. But i stoped because the TAD-A7 clones seem to be in another part of audio universe. The open baffle did not convince me. What takes my interest much more than open baffle is Nelsons J-Low horn. But i wait if there willl be a variation with another speaker, i don´t know if the Jordan is the best choice.
This thread i started nearly 2 years ago, and the passlabs crew moved me on the right way - to diy speakers. The thread showing the process tzo the momentary state is:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=277463#post277463
I did buy 2001´ (arghh - this load of money!) and 1601a´ I had to wait half a year until the horndrivers were delivered to germany. I made some open baffle experiments in between also - using very cheap phillips. But i stoped because the TAD-A7 clones seem to be in another part of audio universe. The open baffle did not convince me. What takes my interest much more than open baffle is Nelsons J-Low horn. But i wait if there willl be a variation with another speaker, i don´t know if the Jordan is the best choice.
Hi Till
Glad to see that You went the DIY way!!
The L-J project is really worthwile, a good and easy obtainable driver alternative is Fostex FE104 sigma.
The best You could find would be Coral Beta6, but then You have to redesign first cavity and throat of the horn. If You do find it give me a note and i´ll help You with redisgn if needed.
Good Luck!!
Glad to see that You went the DIY way!!
The L-J project is really worthwile, a good and easy obtainable driver alternative is Fostex FE104 sigma.
The best You could find would be Coral Beta6, but then You have to redesign first cavity and throat of the horn. If You do find it give me a note and i´ll help You with redisgn if needed.
Good Luck!!
Well Tadman goes a tad over the line here, some of the the tad's are realy good, but not always the best and never in all respects.
Regarding the TD2002 I agree, get the cheaper TD2001, I had them both and withe the horns I tried, its better.
Some of the PHL's are very very good, I can testify to the qualities of the:
5380 the best mid woofer I have heard, and I tried a lot.
3451 the best lower midrange I have heard from 300-1500Hz
no TAD compression driver have a chance in this range.
1040 the best upper midrange, in a carefully time alligned setup with a ESG3 ribbon with the grill removed and mounted in a short waveguide crossed at 4000Hz it even beats my longtime favorite in the over 1000Hz range, the TAD TD2001 with a Fostex 925 super tweeter.
Regarding the TD2002 I agree, get the cheaper TD2001, I had them both and withe the horns I tried, its better.
Some of the PHL's are very very good, I can testify to the qualities of the:
5380 the best mid woofer I have heard, and I tried a lot.
3451 the best lower midrange I have heard from 300-1500Hz
no TAD compression driver have a chance in this range.
1040 the best upper midrange, in a carefully time alligned setup with a ESG3 ribbon with the grill removed and mounted in a short waveguide crossed at 4000Hz it even beats my longtime favorite in the over 1000Hz range, the TAD TD2001 with a Fostex 925 super tweeter.
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