Recommendation for a full range 12" for First Watt amp

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Can anyone recommend a nice sounding/musical 12" driver for a first watt (either full range or coaxial). I'm replacing the orig blown 12" full range drivers.

Kinda on a budget, I'm ok going for a used of vintage or of recent.

Enclosure size is 4.5 cu ft/126 litre, with front vent.

Thanks
 
Unfortunately "Kinda on a budget" doesn't tell us what your range is.

under $100 or under $10

Go to the Madisound or PartsExpress sites and see what they have that fits your budget. (and fits the enclosure)

Then enter the parameters into WinISD or other speaker modeling program and see what the response curve looks like with the box/port that you want to put it in.

That will get you a start.

I did almost the same thing (woofer only) and found that I did not want to spend $60ea for a perfect match but spent $20ea and blocked the port to make a sealed box.

Sounds very smooth. (IMHO)

Happy hunting.
 
Here is what WinISD says about that one:

Both of these plots are based on 4.5ft^3 internal volume.

The yellow is for a sealed box.

The green is for a ported with a 5" dia x 11" long round port. (just my tuning, you can try other dia / lengths / shapes)

If you can get the measurements of what is there, you could enter them into the program and see what you would get.

Nice speaker though.
 

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  • Emmminence Beta 12lta.JPG
    Emmminence Beta 12lta.JPG
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Hey, Thanks for the replies.

Sorry, I forgot to mention price, my budget is ideally under $400 max/pair (including x-over, if needed).

DUG: The front vent cut out is currently 14" x 3.25", 45.5" sq.in. Rest of box is sealed.
The cabinets are very nicely made & finished in sold mahogany but I am going to add some internal bracing for improved stiffness.

Just learning about the Audio Nirvana's, it sounds like the Alnico are very nice but above my budget. Not sure about Ferrite version and not even sure if the AN's are right for my cabinet. I have to say I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to this type of driver. I looked into the Eminence Beta 12 with added coaxial tweeter but again, not sure of the quality compared to other drivers (new or used) in my budget.

I've been recommended to try to find an old pair of 12" Altec Lansing coaxial's but there many different version and seems the highly desired ones are going $600-2500/pair and told the best thing is to replace the AL x-overs, all of which is getting a bit too involved in conduction with the other current projects.


This is for my family house that I trying to fix up for my parents who are in there 80's.

I'll post some photo's of the cabinets.

Again, thanks for the help.


PS> Don't need massive amounts of extended bass or brightness but I rather give that up for nice tight bass, resolving sound/music played in low volumes. Mostly playing vocals, jazz and a lot of classical.
 
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Thanx Dug,

One of the existing drivers died a bad death, hence the much needed replacements and the cabinet needs a bit of tidying/tightening up as well.

What is your opinion between the Eminence Beta 12Lta and the Audio Nirvana Super 12 Driver (cast frame) for this project?

I tried inputting the specs for the AN 12 on the Loudspeaker enclosure calculating with Thiele Small parameter calculator (I have a Mac, can't use WinISD) but had trouble finding the Le/mH & Rg numbers so result is not accurate. Also I didn't have my correct vent dia and QL for my cabinet. Plus some of my cu.ft will be reduced with increased internal bracing.

Will it be better to alter or seal the vent for these drivers in cabinet?

I really appreciate the time and effort helping me out, I very much need the help and knowledge of DIYaudio members, you guys are awesome . It's very much appreciated. Cheers

The Nirvana 12's and my cabinet calcs:
8457942710_90e8c67e8d_b.jpg



8457942902_b831c487ae_b.jpg
 
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It looks like similar results to what I obtained.

I would personally avoid the 5+ dB peak setup.

The one I did only had a +2dB peak when I sealed the port but the bass was still smooth.

You had mentioned that the bass was not a great criteria for this fix.

IMHO:

Either seal the box or seal the port and put in a port of your own.

Have fun.
 
Her are pics of the speakers

8456440383_96dd41226a_b.jpg


8457539238_829047a4c7_c.jpg


8456440883_5366c47178_c.jpg


8457537340_86b3f8915b_c.jpg

Nice! +12 WAF! I'm playing with some hidden high-WAF designs myself ...

The Beta12LT will work well in a cab of that size and it's cheap and ... fun! Godzilla cut the dustcap off his and installed a phase plug to smooth the midrange. There is a notch filter for smoothing too. Add a super tweet (small one, looks like a trinket, on the end table = +3 WAF) and you're set!

Waaaaay back, there was a commercial product and Thorsten's DIY afterburner!


Here's the Eminence document:
View attachment Beta_12LTA_cab.pdf
And here's their 4cuft cab.

Em B12LT 4 cuft cab.png

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...ween-50-10-000hz-3way-system.html#post3354765

You could do an extended alignment to get deeper bass ...

Cheers,
Jeff
 
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Hey Guys, thanks for the help but sadly I'm totally ignorant to reading the graphs. Not sure what shows good or bad in the graphs.

I'm not a speaker builder, I have Totem Mani's, The Ones, Silverline Supreme's, johnblue jb3, Gallo's connected to Musical Fidelity's Tri-Vista int., Jolida 50w Hybrid, Class D amps and a First Watt. I love listening to music but reading enclosure graphs and matching drivers to cabinets is very far from my expertise; hence all the novice questions.

I'm a little discouraged by my research of the drivers listed above. I found the Hammer Super 12's (an upgraded Eminence Beta 12Lta), the Audio Nirvana's (beamy), the Eminence Beta 12Lta, the Electro Voice 12trxb, the Altec Lansing 601's and the Altec 920-8b. All of these seems to have there good points and bad due to my budget and time. Just not sure which is best for this cabinet. I'm just looking for tight, articulate, non-conjested, resolving music to come out of these cabinets; not sure if that's a reality. I was going to donate my First Watt to my parents for these speakers.

The Altec lansing 604's are the ones to use but are way too far above my budget.

So until I can figure out what is available that is best for these cabinets within my budget, I will take them to a friend (master carpenter) shop who owes me a big favor and stiffen & brace them up, replace the front face with a thick blank MDF sheet. Once I have the drivers will then router out to flush mount driver and install the proper port/vent size, sealing & damping the box up properly.

Sorry if I mislead anyone, I really do appreciate everyones time and effort in helping me in this project. Cheers
 
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Hi Jeff,

Yes the WAF factor is huge + with these cabinets, when not use the door hide the speaker, they been in the family for about 50yrs. I did read up about removing the dust caps and inserting a phase plug, then there's the enABLed mods as well. Also making a nice new crossover but are there other drivers out there that don't require so much modding to get good audiophile music out of them?
 
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Joined 2005
The Altec lansing 604's are the ones to use but are way too far above my budget.

So until I can figure out what is available that is best for these cabinets within my budget.....

try have a look at Fane Sovereign 12-200LT....if you can find it in US
http://www.faneinternational.com/downloads/FANE_Sovereign_12200LT_Specs.pdf

but there is the 12" Beyma 12GA50
Beyma Speakers - Beyma 12GA50 fullrange speaker - Beyma 12GA50 500 watt 12" fullrange speaker for lead or bass guitar, organ and loudspeaker applications. Beyma 12GA50 fullrange speakers here.
 

I wouldnt ever recommend the Fane for home use. I have a thread where i'm playing with it, which has a lot of measurements. It goes loud, does bass pretty well and has reasonable dynamics (as you'd expect from a big driver). Its tonal balance is horrible tho. Doing the whole Enabl process helps with its detailing and balances it out slightly but there's still a horrible section around the 1khz-2khz that makes it sound horrendous without some serious EQ.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/209490-phase-plugging.html

you will also need a super tweeter to help up top.

the only 12" driver i've heard so far that actually would be worth buying is the EMS LB12. Its however not very budget friendly but produces a wonderfully detailed and huge sound.
 
Hi Jeff,

Yes the WAF factor is huge + with these cabinets, when not use the door hide the speaker, they been in the family for about 50yrs. I did read up about removing the dust caps and inserting a phase plug, then there's the enABLed mods as well. Also making a nice new crossover but are there other drivers out there that don't require so much modding to get good audiophile music out of them?

Removing the dust cap from say a 12Lta is not hard, it is a big sturdy driver:)
Phase plugs are not required once dust cap has been ectomied:)
2 mods I would say 'Do ASAP' are: Pluff behind the whizzer cone and put felt on the inside of the basket legs - it dont even need to be felt, just slice up a towel and use string to hold it in place.
Enable requires the driver to be run in - It May Help if you get it right, get it wrong and from what I've read your drivers can be held an 'un-run in' time warp or plain ruined..... Ask gafhenderson or read all BudP's threads.
Cross over / BSC (baffle step correction) components may not be needed.
Porting can be played with by tacking (Very small spots of glue) blanking plates in place OR extending existing port.
Just remember, your changing the original drivers for some thing else, so your going to have to learn to play with things to get the sound you like / want - tis the nature of DIY.
 
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Joined 2005
I wouldnt ever recommend the Fane for home use.

looks good, but .....

the only 12" driver i've heard so far that actually would be worth buying is the EMS LB12.

I forgot about that one
almost bought a pair once, but like you say, serious money

but he knows well what he really wants, but is here for a 'budget suggestion'
 
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