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Power Cables / RCA Cables

1InVeNtOr

Member
2013-02-16 5:48 pm
Going to be upgrading my current cables.
so far i have selected Neotech NC-P311 with Neotech NC-P302. has anyone compared a power cord cryo'd vs. non-cryo'd? what's is differences? i am also building a Furman 20A power cord with a Wattgate 350iHC and Neotech NC-P311. i can easily change out all the cryo'd connectors for non, so it's not a huge deal.
i forget what the wire is, it's a 4N copper stranded with a 4N silver plate. it will be 4 braided with a spiraled ground. it's all insulated by teflon.

My RCA's, however have given me a headache. i have so far selected Neotech NEI-3003 and Cardas GRMO. i believe this combo will sound good, but not break the bank. i am spending so much on the power cords, i don't have much left over. my current RCA's are a simple locking brass/gold with a Aircraft wire. it's plated silver with a silver shield. they were a huge improvement over Monoprice RCA's (but i expected that). the construction on them were also different with 2 conductors instead of using a coax. i have been informed that a 2 conductor will roll off my highs. since i have modded RF-7's, highs haven't been an issue.
would it be worth getting the Cardas GRMO cryo'd? cost effective? take the same money and buy a "better" RCA?
it might be moot point because i am trying to build something on the cheaper side but still get "good" results.
thanks for your help
 

1InVeNtOr

Member
2013-02-16 5:48 pm
just read a little bit about cryo. basically it said it's a slight upgrade. what caught my eye the most is, not all metals cryo'd the same. it stated Brass got the best results, where silver has the worse. these connectors are UPOCC with gold, so i should get an "improvement" it's just how much.....
Jeff, you mentioned in an email you were going to have a cryo process, if you think your process will be better than what Neotech offers, i can wait. i still have a ton of extra cables i am not using (i doubt i'll sell them all).
 
David,

It sounds like you have been reading VH Audio's cryo description, or some facsimile of. For the most part, it is true. Simply put, and in general, I tend to prefer the sound of cryo treated conductors and connectors. Given your budget, I would not consider cryo unless is was free, or built in to a package. Your limited budget is better spent on bang for the buck wire and connectors that make good synergy together, and address the characteristics you are looking for.

Regarding that 14ga Silver plated Copper in Teflon mil-spec, we sold out yesterday:( We will not be receiving anymore like that. Be sure to look at our specials page. There are a bunch of great deals right now. However, they too will not last;)
 

1InVeNtOr

Member
2013-02-16 5:48 pm
guilty....lol
so the wire i am basing all my new power connectors are gone? well that sucks bad for me. what you were selling at that price, i don't know what would compete with that.
so, what do you suggest with the connectors we already picked out? do i need to just on those as well?
 
Given the application, desired effect, and budget, the NEI-3003 fit the best IMO. The 1x21 is pretty good stuff, but it will be a tad darker, more relayed, and will carry a little less weight in the bass. I also find the 3003 more refined.

With your setup, and using the 3003, I'd select the GRMO over the LRCA8.
 

1InVeNtOr

Member
2013-02-16 5:48 pm
ok, now we need to figure out what wire to use. now that you sold all of what i was going to use! :( (for me) :) (for you)
i sent you an email also. btw, do you know the cap values in a Klipsch RC-7? i'm going to try and find a diagram, but it might be with my DIY stuff at the house.
 

1InVeNtOr

Member
2013-02-16 5:48 pm
lol. well i'll catch everyone up.....
RCA's: Cardas GRMO + Neotech NEI-3003 total cost for 3 complete cables, ~$90. (not going to buy them at this point)

Power cables connector: Neotech NC-P311& NC-P302 (UPOCC + GOLD + CRYO)
for $25.25ea, you just can't beat it. yeah sure they have a purple color, but i am man enough to rock it.

Power cables wire: 18 awg solid copper plated with silver. i believe it's 4N purity. going to take 12 runs and turn it into a star quad. going to take 3 runs, braid them (x4). take those now braided 4 runs, and put them into a star quad. so each pole will have 6 runs of 18 awg. (i don't have my spread sheet so i don't know the final gauge).

Power cables ground: not too sure. i have a ton of extra wire. it doesn't really matter what i use, but i am thinking of keeping the same wire. possibly braiding 4 runs of the same 18 awg wire. part of the reason for a 4 braid, it's more flat. i can wrap it (opposite direction) and not add too much width to the over all cable diameter.

End result: 2 complete cables for my Emotiva UMC-1 and XPA-3. i will able be making 1 complete cable for my Furman 20PFI (yeah, you know you want one! lol! j/k). only difference, i was able to snatch up the LAST Wattgate 350iHC for the best supplier on earth! (never hurts to suck up a little.....lol)

thats is. all the phone calls and emails boils down to that. the other topic, i'll make a new tread.
 

1InVeNtOr

Member
2013-02-16 5:48 pm
i have the wire lengths i need.
question: do you have any experience with the Pangea Audio AC-14 or AC-9? how it sounds? good value? will the cable i plan on making be an over all "better" cable and why?
their cable has different gauges inside their cable runs, any idea why? someone thought that would be a great idea and manufactured it that way, just curious if you have any inside info on why they did.
 
I've never taken a close look at, much less heard, Pangea cables; they attempt to do some pretty cool things. They use spread-spectrum wire gauge. However, it is not clear whether the individual strands are enameled. It would be nice if they were. PE would be a marked improvement over PVC, to say nothing of Teflon. I'm sure the connectors are merely gold-plated brass. You can see they've discovered the improvement in OCC, hence their SE version of the 14. Nonetheless it's hard to complain, given their cost. For entry level, they give DIY a run for it's money at that price, IMO.
 

1InVeNtOr

Member
2013-02-16 5:48 pm
ALRIGHT! i got them all done!
here's the low down.....
i used a mil-spec 18 awg cu/ag plate teflon wire. used 6 runs for each pole (10awg) and 4 runs for the ground (12awg)
i did a braid 3 then took those 4 assemblies and then did a braid 4.
used a 5/8" tube from Lowes (i think this is it. after you braid the wire, take it there and check to see if it just barely fits. {hint, when it gets a bit tough to slide the wire in, pour a small amount of isopropyl alcohol down the tube and they will slide in. the alcohol evaporates for no mess.}
1/2" tinned copper shield (95%) rated
Neotech NC-P311
Neotech NC-P302
Wattgate 350iHC (i needed a 20a for my Furman 20PFI)
teleflex
heatshrink
you need normal tools to construct this, however, a heat gun is needed for the heatshrink. those can be expensive but there is a few cheap ones on the market. a talented hand and a butane lighter, can get the job done. also depending on the teleflex you get, will depend on the sensitivity to heat.

i had to do is use a step-up bit or uni-bit to open up the backshell to 1". on the NC-P302 (iec) i would recommend only going to 3/4. at 1" it's a touch loose. on the NC-P311, you can only open it up so far. they are made different and you start to cut into the mounting screw holes.
i might buy some 3M 1181 copper foil tape to make this cable as close to 100% shielded as possible.
i also did something different. i used some aluminum tape to completely cover the backshell. if you do this, the aluminum will provide 100% emi/rfi protection. you just have to make sure the harness is wrapped or shielded past the back of the connector. if you can get it to work, use some thicker aluminum foil and heat shrink, does the same thing. (side note: even if you do this and you are 100% perfect in your construction, the cable will not be 100% protected, simply the way the plugs extend past the backshell allows emi/rfi. this just gives you the best possible construction with these types of connectors. besides, it's not like you will have EMI pulse pumps aimed at your gear. the foil wrap and aluminum cover will give you more than enough protection in the worse possible conceived situation.
i only had 2 cables built for my first listen. the connectors were on back order, and i will say this, they arrived only a few days after the first order came in. good job on the super quick shipping!
keep this in mind, i only plugged in my Furman cord and my processor cord. i was streaming netflix watching a normal show.
i was surprised at the audible difference. first off, it was louder. i had to turn the volume down a few numbers to get it back to "normal" volume. what i heard was a bright, clear, and very detailed sound. this is with ZERO break in. in fact, i'm not going to do a true audition until i believe this are broke in. the last cables i made, which are for sale :), were very good and i got good results. they did make an improvement, but i don't remember them effecting the volume at all. this go around i used much better connectors (upocc + gold vs. brass + gold and cu/ag plate + teflon vs. 4N cu + pvc). the other items are the exact same.
my personal opinion is this: cost + performance = amazing deal. the total cost to make these cables was not much at all and they really sound great. i won't spent too much on cables because i believe you should spend more on gear and speakers and tune them in with cables. also depending on what level your equipment is, should reflect the level your cables are. i don't care if you have the "best" possible cable in the world, it won't make a low end system sound like a high end system. improve it yes, but you have to consider cost vs. outcome. besides if you can spend $1500 on a power cord, you won't buy junk equipment!
here are some pics of the wire. the white is the ground (braid 4). for the final braid of the poles i went with the "cross" pattern. i actually did this on accident. i braided one, then the other and noticed they were different. i chose the cross based on i thought it might be better. it looked like the pole's stayed away from each other and the other braid it looked like they ran together. i hope i chose right. the pic of the completed cables is not the actual cables. those are plugged in and i'm too lazy to pull them out. however, this pic shows the same tube, shielding, and spiraled ground. my current cables look the same as these.
Jeff mentioned that Sonic Craft might start offering this same power cable as a finished cable. i have 1 small suggestion, look into buying a "cable cooker" and offering that with a finished cable. this way, there is no brake in time. i have no idea on the hassle or cost, but it's a thought. even my cheap butt would have to at least consider the difference in price for the convenience. i would also throw my hat into the ring; if Sonic Craft is too busy, i'd make some prototype power cables for them. free labor of course.
just so it's said, you can make this cable at any level you want. the tubing, braid shield, etc. all adds to the final cost. i'm sure this cable will work just the same with just the connectors and that braid. no tubing, no nothing. maybe some teleflex just for looks. if budget is tight, you can make that, then add to it when more funds are available. i also don't know if all the extra helps or hurts the final sound.
thanks again to Jeff, i called him at least 100 times and he at least fakes that he is happy to hear from me!
 

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