Lately I’ve been looking at the semi-DIY modular approach to open baffle designs by PureAudioProject, in particular their Quintet10 model (Quintet10, Wall of Sound Open Baffle Speakers - PureAudioProject). As I do not have USD $8000-8500 to spend on a pair I thought to propose a less expensive DIY option. Here are the chosen components (per speaker):
4 x Visaton WS25 E 10” Paper Cone Woofer 8 Ohm Visaton WS25 E 10" Paper Cone Woofer 8 Ohm
($32.09/each for qty 8 as of this writing, $256.72 total)
1 x Wild Burro Audio Labs Betsy 8” Full Range Driver Wild Burro Audio Labs - Fullrange Speakers - The Betsy & Betsy-K Drivers
($110/pair as of this writing)
Specs are at the same links but they seem like a good match for each other and certainly for an OB application.
Regarding the mounting of the drivers I propose to use a 12” H x 22.5” W (30cm x 57cm) panel per driver. The panels would be flush inset to .75” (19mm) thick side wings tapering from 6” (15cm) deep at the bottom to 3” (7.6cm) at the top. This would extend the overall baffle width to 36” (91cm) at the bottom to 30” (76cm) at the top. The Betsy panel would be set perpendicular to the floor with each woofer panel being progressively offset at 5 degree increments from center height to present a curved baffle. That being said I would like to incorporate a hinge of some type where the frame meets the plinth with fixed stop points to allow for fine tuning the ear/on-axis angle.
The crossover? Well, that’s where I have a conundrum. My thought is to cross them over around 250Hz (+/- 50Hz) to relieve the Betsy of lower level duties but I’ve also considered running her full range and just low-passing the woofers. PureAudioProject have their Leonidas modular passive crossover and I’ve considered asking them if this driver configuration will work. Judging from their website they are very flexible regarding customization and they would probably sell me just the crossovers (sourced from Mundorf) but I’m concerned the price would probably double the project cost. While they have the true crossover components list password-protected I believe the base unit can be derived from looking at the photos here: The Leonidas Crossover - PureAudioProject. I’ve never done much with crossovers so I’m at a bit of a disadvantage here and would appreciate any recommendations. Back when they offered the service I would let Madisound design and build them for me, or I would drift into single driver full range territory and not have to worry about it. I’m still not keen on DSP (I’m a bit of a Luddite at times) but this could turn into an active project as well with the right equipment. I just think a minimal passive crossover will work fine and keep costs down. I think this has the potential to be a great sub-$500 setup.
Anyway, that’s the proposal. Since I already have two other speaker projects in the works I can’t say when these will get built but I wanted to throw it into the forum, get whatever feedback is offered, and maybe inspire creativity in someone else. I’m also dealing with the aftereffects of a TBI that gives me a bad case of “builder’s block” so I’m really struggling in the workshop.
4 x Visaton WS25 E 10” Paper Cone Woofer 8 Ohm Visaton WS25 E 10" Paper Cone Woofer 8 Ohm
($32.09/each for qty 8 as of this writing, $256.72 total)
1 x Wild Burro Audio Labs Betsy 8” Full Range Driver Wild Burro Audio Labs - Fullrange Speakers - The Betsy & Betsy-K Drivers
($110/pair as of this writing)
Specs are at the same links but they seem like a good match for each other and certainly for an OB application.
Regarding the mounting of the drivers I propose to use a 12” H x 22.5” W (30cm x 57cm) panel per driver. The panels would be flush inset to .75” (19mm) thick side wings tapering from 6” (15cm) deep at the bottom to 3” (7.6cm) at the top. This would extend the overall baffle width to 36” (91cm) at the bottom to 30” (76cm) at the top. The Betsy panel would be set perpendicular to the floor with each woofer panel being progressively offset at 5 degree increments from center height to present a curved baffle. That being said I would like to incorporate a hinge of some type where the frame meets the plinth with fixed stop points to allow for fine tuning the ear/on-axis angle.
The crossover? Well, that’s where I have a conundrum. My thought is to cross them over around 250Hz (+/- 50Hz) to relieve the Betsy of lower level duties but I’ve also considered running her full range and just low-passing the woofers. PureAudioProject have their Leonidas modular passive crossover and I’ve considered asking them if this driver configuration will work. Judging from their website they are very flexible regarding customization and they would probably sell me just the crossovers (sourced from Mundorf) but I’m concerned the price would probably double the project cost. While they have the true crossover components list password-protected I believe the base unit can be derived from looking at the photos here: The Leonidas Crossover - PureAudioProject. I’ve never done much with crossovers so I’m at a bit of a disadvantage here and would appreciate any recommendations. Back when they offered the service I would let Madisound design and build them for me, or I would drift into single driver full range territory and not have to worry about it. I’m still not keen on DSP (I’m a bit of a Luddite at times) but this could turn into an active project as well with the right equipment. I just think a minimal passive crossover will work fine and keep costs down. I think this has the potential to be a great sub-$500 setup.
Anyway, that’s the proposal. Since I already have two other speaker projects in the works I can’t say when these will get built but I wanted to throw it into the forum, get whatever feedback is offered, and maybe inspire creativity in someone else. I’m also dealing with the aftereffects of a TBI that gives me a bad case of “builder’s block” so I’m really struggling in the workshop.
The Qts of that bass driver is very high, you might end up with a boomy bass response.
SB Acoustics has an 8” full range driver on its way, that could turn out to be good value and well built SB Acoustics :: 8” SB20FRPC30-8 <br><font color="#0f6ff5">OPEN FOR PRE-ORDER</font>
SB Acoustics has an 8” full range driver on its way, that could turn out to be good value and well built SB Acoustics :: 8” SB20FRPC30-8 <br><font color="#0f6ff5">OPEN FOR PRE-ORDER</font>
An easier and much faster way to get an open baffle dipole solution for about the same amount of money is to buy a pair of the new Magnepan LRS speakers for $650. After considering other OB low cost DIY options that's what I'm now seriously looking at doing.
I auditioned the slightly larger Maggie .7 a few days ago and really like what I heard. Entirely different from any box speaker. Huge sound stage. No awareness of any physical speakers. Very transparent and enveloping experience. Big sound, if that's what you want.
You do need a lot of current to drive the Maggies properly. So the amp being used is a big part of the considerations.
I was looking at probably building the GR Research X-Statik OB, but now the Maggies are much more appealing to start with.
I auditioned the slightly larger Maggie .7 a few days ago and really like what I heard. Entirely different from any box speaker. Huge sound stage. No awareness of any physical speakers. Very transparent and enveloping experience. Big sound, if that's what you want.
You do need a lot of current to drive the Maggies properly. So the amp being used is a big part of the considerations.
I was looking at probably building the GR Research X-Statik OB, but now the Maggies are much more appealing to start with.
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Thank you for your opinion. I’m sure the Maggies are fine speakers judging from the many positive reviews they have received but it’s been 35 years since I bought a pair of speakers on the retail market. I’m solidly in the DIY camp now and have no reason to change knowing my bang for the buck is much higher by building my own.
Thank you for your opinion. I’m sure the Maggies are fine speakers judging from the many positive reviews they have received but it’s been 35 years since I bought a pair of speakers on the retail market. I’m solidly in the DIY camp now and have no reason to change knowing my bang for the buck is much higher by building my own.
I agree with you about building DIY speakers. That's the reason I've been doing it also. But this Maggie LRS might very well be the exception to the idea that DIY is less expensive. It produces an incredible sound that I seriously doubt you can match for $650.
What you are proposing to do will be $476 in drivers alone. By the time you add crossover parts, hardware, connectors, and cabinet building and finishing materials, you will likely exceed $650. Or at least come very close to it.
So the issue in this case is not cost, or bang for the buck. In fact the sound quality from these Maggies could easily exceed what you are planning. I seriously doubt that the Betsy is going to match the mid and high frequency performance of the LRS. What you will get with your plan is more bass. If a lot of bass is important to you, then your plan will be better. But for overall sound quality and musicality I think the LRS will win handily.
If you've never heard Maggies you might want to give it a try. They are different and if you like their sound, particularly the huge sound stage, there is no way to get there with DIY at the same price.
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I understand that fully. I enjoy it also. Just thought you might be interested in another OB dipole alternative for a comparable cost. Hope it works out really well for you.
have you tried 8" with whizzer cone before? did you like it?
order the betsy first and listen to it naked; see if you like the top end...
compare it side by side to sth with proper tweeter...
make sure with the seller that you have the option of returning them.
IMO there is not much point in building DIY with poor drivers... the total price adds up and you end up with sth mediocre.
OB builds to aspire to are
LX mini for small rooms
Troels' OB15 if you have space
order the betsy first and listen to it naked; see if you like the top end...
compare it side by side to sth with proper tweeter...
make sure with the seller that you have the option of returning them.
IMO there is not much point in building DIY with poor drivers... the total price adds up and you end up with sth mediocre.
OB builds to aspire to are
LX mini for small rooms
Troels' OB15 if you have space
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Reading PAP's comments about their Leonidas crossover it seems that having it work well with these low cost drivers is rather unlikely:
Q: Can Leonidas Crossover work with any drivers ?
A: Electronically it can however this topology will not be too forgiving with drivers that are less than top grade as far as build and performances along the operation frequency range are concerned. Leonidas Crossovers were designed having our high-end Open Baffle woofers in mind. Both, the 15″ and the 10″ woofers are designed specifically for Open Baffle and excel to perform along a wide frequency range.
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