The smoothness and correctness of high frequency of the Pluto (clone) is quite well known, in fact it prompted changes to the uber-expensive Orions.
However their monopole bass means boomy, coloured sound. So what if I use the Pluto down to 100hz only then hand over to a dipole sub?
It worked quite well actually!
I thought the transition is not audible nor degrading.
The plutos, being omni, provides very spacious imaging like dipoles. With one advantage, the sound does not shift when I walk around the room. They are the anti-CD of loudspeaker design. If JBL and Gedlee tries to have narrow beam as low as possible, the Pluto tries to have wide dispersion as high as possible.
Subjectively the system renders much better midrange (vocals etc.) than every dipoles I've built. I thought some upper mids are cleaner with dipoles like piano recordings.
Imaging is superb. I thought they are tall and wide but more sharper than dipoles.
However their monopole bass means boomy, coloured sound. So what if I use the Pluto down to 100hz only then hand over to a dipole sub?
It worked quite well actually!
I thought the transition is not audible nor degrading.
The plutos, being omni, provides very spacious imaging like dipoles. With one advantage, the sound does not shift when I walk around the room. They are the anti-CD of loudspeaker design. If JBL and Gedlee tries to have narrow beam as low as possible, the Pluto tries to have wide dispersion as high as possible.
Subjectively the system renders much better midrange (vocals etc.) than every dipoles I've built. I thought some upper mids are cleaner with dipoles like piano recordings.
Imaging is superb. I thought they are tall and wide but more sharper than dipoles.
Hi Gainphile,
Oliver
I tried that as well ! X-over was around 90Hz back then. It worked quite well for me although today I would shift the XO even further down (around 60..80Hz).
I trust you when you claim that but hopefully not in the too distant future I can verify that myself.
Oliver
But if it's too low then the monopole would operate in the boomy region? I actually wanted to make the transition as highas possible. But as you know the w-frame have nasty resonance, mine at 350hz.
Yes!
Hopefully by then I will have a CD speakers too
Andi,
Glad you are back modifying your Pluto clone. I had thought of making a pair myself, but after reading your thoughts, passed, thinking I already had something "better" for my needs. Now you have me thinking of trying a clone of this:
Eight little Fountek FR88EXs, a couple of Neo3s, and my W-woofers......what do you think? Unfortunately, I've never heard an omni, so can you tell me how your omnis sound compared to your dipoles (if that's possible)?
Thanks,
Craigj
Glad you are back modifying your Pluto clone. I had thought of making a pair myself, but after reading your thoughts, passed, thinking I already had something "better" for my needs. Now you have me thinking of trying a clone of this:
Eight little Fountek FR88EXs, a couple of Neo3s, and my W-woofers......what do you think? Unfortunately, I've never heard an omni, so can you tell me how your omnis sound compared to your dipoles (if that's possible)?
Thanks,
Craigj
Even if generates audible resonances you can do something with placement and it should be a piece of cake to notch it out with the DSP.
My personal goal for the Omni is to use the mid bass as much as possible and make the main information of the music all of a piece (one cast so to speak). As a result the transition to the subs ocurrs when there is very little to no stereo information left and the change of the radiation patterns happens outside the voice spectrum. If I don't want the subs I leave 'em off.
Ah, that yes, too ! 😀
Yes !
Hi Gainphile,
From my experience of building Pluto clones, I conclude the wider the tube, the better bass you will have.
My first version was with a no-name 6’’ woofer I had in hand (watch attached picture). In this version I use a wider tube in order to fit the 6’’ woofer. Although it was lacking detail in the mids (because of the crap woofer) the bass was deep, spacious, without much coloration or booming.
In my second build of Pluto clone, I used a 5,5’’ Jamo woofer and the recommended tube width dimensions. Result was better mids, not so low bass as before, but more boomy and coloration than before. YouTube - Pluto like Omnidirectional speakers.
From my experience of building Pluto clones, I conclude the wider the tube, the better bass you will have.
My first version was with a no-name 6’’ woofer I had in hand (watch attached picture). In this version I use a wider tube in order to fit the 6’’ woofer. Although it was lacking detail in the mids (because of the crap woofer) the bass was deep, spacious, without much coloration or booming.
In my second build of Pluto clone, I used a 5,5’’ Jamo woofer and the recommended tube width dimensions. Result was better mids, not so low bass as before, but more boomy and coloration than before. YouTube - Pluto like Omnidirectional speakers.
Attachments
Right now the problem builders are having is finding sources of parts. Most Siegfried Linkwitz designs are very parts sensitive. He worries about a 1/10 or 2/10 dB difference. In the US finding electronic parts is not easy and in Europe finding US size plumbing parts is imposable.
My experience tells me that the Pluto design should sound enveloping for stereo. It would be cool to read a detailed, CHEAP, clone build. I don't think the magic drivers are very necessary--they may sweeten the deal, but any driver that will fit the directivity bill and have enough excursion/efficiency should do.
Dan
Dan
Do you think the drivers are expensive ?
That is exactly the magic you are talking about.
Oliver
Not the drivers so much though I don't think SEAS prices are necessary for reasonable performance. I think the total cost of a kit was somewhere over 500-1000 USD and some options all the way to 3 grand. My pockets don't go so deep for such things.
To me that's not magic. Just good common sense. All I'm saying is there's likely other drivers, probably cheaper, that will fit the bill nicely. Maybe the SEAS sweeten it. Call me ignorant and apathetic--I don't know and I don't care. ha ha
Any problems with that?😛
Dan
There is no way you should have to spend $3K on a pair of Plutos, even if you buy the boards from SL..
You could build Orion's for that.. He designed the crossovers with particular drivers in mind, and has compensation built into them to iron out any peaks/valleys in the driver. I think its very worthwhile sticking with the specific drivers, since he spent a lot of time refining the design with the drivers he spec'd. If I had a proper room for them, I'd be building a pair, but my audio room is really only a 10x12 den that works better with small bookshelves..
You could build Orion's for that.. He designed the crossovers with particular drivers in mind, and has compensation built into them to iron out any peaks/valleys in the driver. I think its very worthwhile sticking with the specific drivers, since he spent a lot of time refining the design with the drivers he spec'd. If I had a proper room for them, I'd be building a pair, but my audio room is really only a 10x12 den that works better with small bookshelves..
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