I'm a big fan of my Yamaha DXR12s. Listening to them right now.
They remind me a lot of the Gedlee Summas that I used to own, but the Yamahas are much much cheaper.
The Summas use an absolute MONSTER of a midbass, which retails for $700 per pair: https://www.usspeaker.com/B&C-15TBX100-1.htm
Something I've noticed with these MONSTER woofers is that you have to add a lot of tech into the driver to widen the bandwidth. For instance, the 15TBX100 includes dual shorting rings to extend the bandwidth to 2khz. The woofer weighs a TON. It requires a beefy/expensive frame to accommodate that huge motor.
Basically, as you raise the power handling, you're forced to add expensive features in order to compensate for the higher inductance and the higher weight.
When I opened up my Yamaha DXR12s, I was surprised by how cheap the woofer is - but also by how good it sounds. It reminds me a lot of the Eminence Alpha drivers. They're cheap and they look it, but they also perform quite well if you don't feed them a ton of power.
I wouldn't use an Eminence Alpha 12 in a speaker for sound reinforcement, because it doesn't have much power handling. But for a home stereo situation, a mere ten watts will get you well past THX levels of output.
With that in mind, I implore you to go buy some Celestion TF 1220s so that I don't. They retail for $104 plus shipping, but Amazon has them for $66 with overnight delivery for free.
To me, they look like a good option for a moderately powered Summa-esque type of speaker. Comparable and maybe superior to the Eminence Alpha 12, which retails for $120:
https://www.parts-express.com/Eminence-Alpha-12A-12-Guitar-PA-Driver-290-405
The TF 1220 is hardly a "high tech wonder" but it's a solid affordable choice for a midbass
If you want to give them a listen first, head down to Guitar Center and listen to the QSC K12 speaker. It has the same woofer.
Here's a review:
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/qsc-k122
They remind me a lot of the Gedlee Summas that I used to own, but the Yamahas are much much cheaper.
The Summas use an absolute MONSTER of a midbass, which retails for $700 per pair: https://www.usspeaker.com/B&C-15TBX100-1.htm
Something I've noticed with these MONSTER woofers is that you have to add a lot of tech into the driver to widen the bandwidth. For instance, the 15TBX100 includes dual shorting rings to extend the bandwidth to 2khz. The woofer weighs a TON. It requires a beefy/expensive frame to accommodate that huge motor.
Basically, as you raise the power handling, you're forced to add expensive features in order to compensate for the higher inductance and the higher weight.
When I opened up my Yamaha DXR12s, I was surprised by how cheap the woofer is - but also by how good it sounds. It reminds me a lot of the Eminence Alpha drivers. They're cheap and they look it, but they also perform quite well if you don't feed them a ton of power.
I wouldn't use an Eminence Alpha 12 in a speaker for sound reinforcement, because it doesn't have much power handling. But for a home stereo situation, a mere ten watts will get you well past THX levels of output.
With that in mind, I implore you to go buy some Celestion TF 1220s so that I don't. They retail for $104 plus shipping, but Amazon has them for $66 with overnight delivery for free.
To me, they look like a good option for a moderately powered Summa-esque type of speaker. Comparable and maybe superior to the Eminence Alpha 12, which retails for $120:
https://www.parts-express.com/Eminence-Alpha-12A-12-Guitar-PA-Driver-290-405
The TF 1220 is hardly a "high tech wonder" but it's a solid affordable choice for a midbass
If you want to give them a listen first, head down to Guitar Center and listen to the QSC K12 speaker. It has the same woofer.
Here's a review:
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/qsc-k122
Attachments
The Celestion is ok. But nothing particularly noteworthy, I think. So I'll raise you one, since we're raiding the bargain bin for PA components.
Have a look at this:
How much do think this retails for?
If you thought it's well over US$100 / €100E, you'd be wrong:
https://www.thomann.de/intl/turbosound_ts_12w350_8a.htm
Have a look at this:
How much do think this retails for?
If you thought it's well over US$100 / €100E, you'd be wrong:
https://www.thomann.de/intl/turbosound_ts_12w350_8a.htm
Yes they have 2, for some curious reason. The one you pointed to at Sweetwater has a convex dustcap. and slightly lumpier FR:
Reference:
https://www.turbosound.com/product.html?modelCode=P0E4P
This 8A model- with the concave dustcap is here:
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...low-frequency-loudspeaker-for-pa-applications
It's probably the one I would choose. In my observation, concave dustcaps result in a cone geometry that gives slightly more extended off axis response.
Reference:
https://www.turbosound.com/product.html?modelCode=P0E4P
This 8A model- with the concave dustcap is here:
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...low-frequency-loudspeaker-for-pa-applications
It's probably the one I would choose. In my observation, concave dustcaps result in a cone geometry that gives slightly more extended off axis response.
The grs 10 inch pa woofer looks quite good as well, Matt at mtg made a two way with it that I'd like to make, the vbs 10.2, crazy performance the cost if you ask me.
So what’s your DXR12 woofer look like?
Taken any measurements of the woofer, sans DSP?
Here’s the DXR mkII speaker, as measured by Yamaha, published at spinorama.org
Reference:
https://www.spinorama.org/speakers/Yamaha DXR12mkII/Yamaha/index_vendor-pattern-90x60.html
Taken any measurements of the woofer, sans DSP?
Here’s the DXR mkII speaker, as measured by Yamaha, published at spinorama.org
Reference:
https://www.spinorama.org/speakers/Yamaha DXR12mkII/Yamaha/index_vendor-pattern-90x60.html
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I'm pretty darn happy with it.
DSP is nearly a requirement; the stock response is shaped like a "smile":
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/favorite-horn-cd-combos.363667/page-2
The lower treble is recessed by about 4dB, right out of the box.
But add a MiniDSP and it's real high fidelity.
In the measurements posted above, the beamwidth is narrower than it is "in real life." Basically I moved the mic from left to right to do the measurements. What you SHOULD do is move the mic in an arc centered on the speaker. So that you're always equidistant.
I was in a hurry when I made that measurement.
DSP is nearly a requirement; the stock response is shaped like a "smile":
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/favorite-horn-cd-combos.363667/page-2
The lower treble is recessed by about 4dB, right out of the box.
But add a MiniDSP and it's real high fidelity.
In the measurements posted above, the beamwidth is narrower than it is "in real life." Basically I moved the mic from left to right to do the measurements. What you SHOULD do is move the mic in an arc centered on the speaker. So that you're always equidistant.
I was in a hurry when I made that measurement.
any thoughts on the dayton dc range like the dc300 or dc380 seems like they could be quite good for a low powered home use option and seem subtable for sealed boxes ?
Don't forget about the Fane 12-300.
https://www.fane-international.com/view-product/SOVEREIGN-12-3002#tab-5
0 and 45° if my memory is still functional.
https://www.fane-international.com/view-product/SOVEREIGN-12-3002#tab-5
0 and 45° if my memory is still functional.
Been thinking about a luggable robust 2way actually, they can go flat-ish to around 40Hz.
Sort of like a poor mans monkey coffin.
Sort of like a poor mans monkey coffin.
what we're you thinking of up top . that sounds interesting got a fav compression driver ? I'm on the lookout for something afordable and nice and smooth
What about the Eminence Delta Pro 12A? That's a very good woofer for the money. Yamaha used it in their S112V passive cabs, which were crippled by the cheap crossover, cabinet and garbage compression driver. That woofer will certainly handle more power and stay more composed than the cheaper Alphas or various Celestions. It goes pretty low in a decent ported enclosure and has reasonably clean midrange.
Even the stsmped basket Peerless 1020 and 1220 pro sound drivers are better than most OE stuff used in cheap plastic box 2 ways. Too bad they are subject to Peerless stupid new OE bulk qty sales policy. They sure did well with their coated Ti diaphragm horn drivers.
The Dayton PA310 is another great one with exceptional low end capabilities.
Even the stsmped basket Peerless 1020 and 1220 pro sound drivers are better than most OE stuff used in cheap plastic box 2 ways. Too bad they are subject to Peerless stupid new OE bulk qty sales policy. They sure did well with their coated Ti diaphragm horn drivers.
The Dayton PA310 is another great one with exceptional low end capabilities.
I've taken those Yamahas apart before and know what you mean regarding the woofer they used. Its a pretty pathetic looking driver and it shows how much you can polish a turd. Their DSP is pretty good looking at how much they can get out of that driver.
