PA BLOW(amp parts melt inside)

ADUUDA

Member
2016-05-30 1:53 pm
Hi! im seeking help after a rented PA broke totally at a party.

i was invited to play, and during my set, left speaker "popped". EV EKX-12P - Thomann UK

This was the speaker. they also had two subs and a monitor. The one who rent the system also setup the system. He had two mixers in chain, one was supposed to be a "limiter". The space where i played was about 20m2.

so i played with my friends monotribe during my set and during that the speaker popped. my friend and one organizer tried another fuse but it also failed. they replaced the speaker with another one after my set and everything was fine. i left from the party. Then after couple of days the organizer asked me what will we do with the bill from rentshop, the bill was 3000€!! so after i left, the whole system started to fail! all the speakers broke one by one! someone said that one of the subs "blew fire".

we allways watch so the levels dont go red in the mixer! there werent any distortion or anything! imo in that space theres noway we can melt an 1500w amp! i always put lvls from mixer to 0db, everything from computer to 0db, and then use gain to adjust the output so it does not go red! so far ive done this in middle of a raining forest with no problems and with smaller PA!

can anyone explain why this happend? there werent a decent limiter nor dsp, could it be the cause? or is it really possible that i blew up a 1,5kw speaker by playing music too loud?
 

conanski

Member
2013-03-31 3:53 am
Self powered speakers like this have a lot of protection built-in so there is really nothing an end user needs to do to protect them, but any time you rent speakers it's always a good idea to get the optional insurance offered just in case something goes wrong.

I own some of these EV powered speakers and they have been 100% reliable despite being driven pretty hard for hours on occasion and I can't say I have heard of any failures before this thread, so given that I have to wonder if these were authentic EV products or perhaps chinese copies. I can understand 1 speaker dying due to some manufacturing fault but there is no way a whole PA should die like that
 
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ADUUDA

Member
2016-05-30 1:53 pm
I sent an email to EV to get their opinion, as you adviced. ill wait for respond.

here's what i wrote to gearslutz:

-we (i and one friend) play techno music from laptop, to be specific psytrance . i did not sign anything, and i have talked with an organizer who at the time wants me to take part for at least on that one speakers bill. its not that i really have to pay anything if i dont want to, i just want to figure out what was the reason and could it really be cos of volume? i want to get a good explanation for the organizer, so he can possibly take the case to customer service. because now he really think the whole system broke cos of "gains too loud". in fact, i lowered gain when we started to play, cos gains were up and fader from mixer down, i put fader 0db and adjust levels with gain(i never let it go red on purpose!)

-"voice coil"(translate from finnish ) broken on other speaker, "amp parts melted" inside other speaker and it did not turn on, one sub blew flames when connected to amp(so apparently subs were passive?, dont remember clear, but imo the the speakers got sound cable from subs)

this is what organizer told they figured out in the "morning".

there werent proffesional engineer at the place, but its not that we are not familiar with pa systems. we have used several systems, and at the moment have a 3kw system, with 2 jbl eons as monitors. just this time it was not "Our system" , it was a system that these organizers have rented several times, even i played month ago witht he same system, and louder imo! with np.

again, the one who rented(a pro from rentshop) the system also setup the system.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/new...melt-inside-3000a-bill-rent.html#post11929408
 
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If push comes to shove, I doubt the hire company has a leg to stand on legally. You can argue the equipment was not of acceptable quality or EV should take a look as they are protected electronically against overload. If the power supply fails due to a mains spike, that will be difficult to prove.
Normally if you hire stuff and you break it by dropping it or water ingress, you pay for it but if you hire something and it goes wrong, the hire company has to repair or replace it. If you hire a colour tv and it goes wrong, you are not expected to pay for the repair.
I don't know what country you are in but rules change.
 

conanski

Member
2013-03-31 3:53 am
i just want to figure out what was the reason and could it really be cos of volume?
No.. if these speakers were connected directly form the mixer as they should have been then there would be pretty much no way you could damage them with any signal level.

one sub blew flames when connected to amp(so apparently subs were passive?, dont remember clear, but imo the the speakers got sound cable from subs)

If these were active speakers and you fed them output from a power amp then that is why they blew up and whoever did that is at fault and should at the very least be banished from any further involvement in setting up PA systems. If only the top was active but it was connected to a passive sub then again that is the same as connecting it to a power amp and whoever did that was responsible for blowing it up. That said the rental shop has to take some responsibility for ensuring the customer knows how to correctly deploy the gear, if it's apparent that said customer is completely daft and will probably mess it up then they should have sent a tech to do it.
 
What tends to happen is someone drives the speakers too hard for too long.
The speakers then fry and go short circuit.
The short circuit blows the amp.

Unlikely, with these cabs.

You're looking at full DSP, temperature sensors everywhere, current limiting, cone excursion monitoring, the lot. Done properly (as I fully expect EV would've), such things are almost indestructable.

I suspect something's amiss somewhere, and wouldn't hand over any money until an EV tech has seen the cabs.

Chris
 

ADUUDA

Member
2016-05-30 1:53 pm
so its now solved from my part. I contacted the one who rent the system, and all he had to say was that the system worked when setup and all broken when he got them back. thats all he wants to know. So as he cant give me any explanation, why the fault is the artist's, i wont raise a finger for it either. I explained all that you guys said and he had nothing to say about it. He said his equipment is at EV importer, and that it was bought in february! He has rent the system for 5 parties and it broke! i doubt that he will tell the whole story(2mixers) for warranty :D . Also he said that "gains" from the speakers(he means all knobs) were on max, but then the sound would distort, am i right? and none of artists touch them! also that passive sub was only as a "stand" :D.

so i wont pay anything more since i have made very clear why the fault happend, and thats the end of it. i do feel bad for the organizer, but he also has all this information and its up to him, what he does with it.

just one question, is true that the other mixer could compress the signal, and not limit. or limit, but same time compress since its too low in the next one. so the signal would be a compressed signal that makes more load on the speakers. in two partys the sound allways sounded like porrige(in finnish :D), but by adjusting the mixer right(previous artist allways has gain max!) i get a decent clear sound. never realized that the cabs were that good! since the system played way worse than many cheap systems ive had!

this is what i heard from one source.
 

00940

Member
2003-09-03 12:17 pm
Liège
The whole thing is pretty messed up. It is stupid to rent a system with subs just as "stands". These things are heavy and costly.

Gain knobs turned all the way on the speakers is crazy too. These speakers accept mic level input. If you're using line level output, you're not suppose to turn the knob further than vertical. A mixer output will overload the inputs in no time otherwise (and even then).

It might be that the loudspeakers went heavily into limiting from the start and overheated. Might be. Be I agree with Chris, it's usually damn hard to kill such powered loudspeakers (unless you drop them, but that's another story). The LCD display should have displayed a warning too.

I certainly wouldn't accept to pay anything at this point if I were you. Not unless a lot more information was given.