Order of panels in Tympahni 1D

WrineX

Member
2004-03-25 2:43 pm
Den Haag
hi after i demolished my knees by sitting on the ground for 5 hours i just rewired (foil exactly 8 ohms total 50 meter of foil :() one channel of the tympahni 1D form magnepan, sound is ok, not the best i heard but i thnik its mostly because my room, its just to small for these beasts.

but im wondering if the setup is correct..

for now it goes for the left chanel according to magnepan Tweeter on outside, then bass panel then bass/mid panel. but i wonder if this is correct. it makes more sense to me to have from left to right tweeter midbass then bass. also the wire is facing forward , is this normal >? or am i running bass and mid out of phase with the tweeter>?


i tried googling but io see different configurations.

Ps bad foto but you know what i mean


or is it because the bass panel is facing away from listener so the mid bass is the third panel wich faces to listenen again.
 

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tyu

Member
2009-07-18 8:16 pm
I am gessing that the wire was bad on the panels?
I have found the the foil has less output than the wire,on the Magnepans... i have re-foiled some older MG1c,foil vers wire on the two 1cs speaker gave like 2-3db less output with the foil,but the newer magnepans have the mylar to the front.
The older 1cs were on the back....Thanks for the post an pix...looks cool...cant help on the panels setup!....but magnepan would know...but try them every way see what workes for you.
 

john65b

Member
Paid Member
2005-01-09 2:32 am
Chicago
On the T-ID I rewired, the wires were towards back. It sounded correct that way with the tweeter panels - I think your nulling some frequency and your panels are out of phase. I will check my pics tonight (sold them)

Whichever panel (bass or mid) that have two sets of wire holes the bottom is the panel that goes goes in middle. I remember it to be the mids?

Also, you need to give them some time and drive them with a good current amp. It took a couple hundred hours to sound good.
 

WrineX

Member
2004-03-25 2:43 pm
Den Haag
Ah Yeah stupid of THE one with 4 connections shoul be in mid :) this is THE bass panel by the way so the setup is correct. Only wich side should be on front. I can ofc measure the phase. But some designs have the tweeter out of phase so or still does not tell me if it's correct. I tried both and to my ear wire in front sounds best. But then again I'm not used to the speaker. I kept the original layout on the coil. I've seen some images of a 1d online where the wire is on the front to but this could be modification, some people prefer the wire side although if I measure it really does not matter.
 

WrineX

Member
2004-03-25 2:43 pm
Den Haag
Hmm burning IN i think
In my case is snake oil , the mylar is the original and the coil is foil instead of wire, also it lacks the half a kilo of glue. I will measure them soon to see what it did to the resonance , but I bet its 40 hertz , wich according to the frequency response of 40 to 20 k should be 40 or less.

I think it more getting used to a sPeaker in this case or find good placement, wich is a nightmare with such huge gigantic ugly doors. I finish the second check if everything is accoRding to spec and then prob sell fo a WAF frendly DIY project :)
 
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john65b

Member
Paid Member
2005-01-09 2:32 am
Chicago
If you are selling them, Roger Gustofson was interetsed in my T-Ids. but we couldn''t get the shipping done cost effectively - he is in your neck of the woods...

I think mine actually sounded a little better after a little while - maybe the glue /wire / mylar finally setting up?

I did not use a lot of glue on the panels, but I think the amount of glue weighing down the mylar is a lot more important on the mid / tweets. I used very little glue on my T-IVa mids...
 
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WrineX

Member
2004-03-25 2:43 pm
Den Haag
ok i measured both responses and i must say they dont differ much werid enough. when i look at the phase response. it slightly moves but not what im used to see from 0-180. i forgot to save the repsonse so i will do it again. but i did save a response of the resonance frequency with foil instead of wire without the glue. and by the way jesus these panels can play loud and low, its insane.


as you can see the resonance is where i expected it to be slame in the middle of 40 hertz this is a close measurment of the bass panel. i did measureed a full range signal so thats why the response from 400 and up is so weird, (because theres another pannel next to the mic as well)
 

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When i connect à monitor speaker of wich i know THE polarity, i listen to te bass panel of THE tymp d and the monitor. And it looks like i was wrong. I think THE membrane should go to THE back although this is nog THE way i received THE pair.

When connected both in Phase there is less bass so it seems my panel is the other way around after all.


Still. Ant find any stock image to confirm this.

Does anybody has a untweaked 1d and could feel or see wich way had to be on the front ???
 
re: Tympani 1D

WrineX,

Having owned a pair of Tympani 1D for the last 34 years, I can assure you that the diaphrams of the woofer-mid panels should be facing the listener, with the mid panel in the middle.

The best way to check for proper panel polarity is to connect a 1.5v battery to the panels. Polarity is correct when the diaphram moves away from the magnets (toward the listener) with the positive terminal of the battery indicating the + lead of the speaker.

Once basic polarity is known, you must experiment with the angle of the panels in relation to each other in order to determine the best acoustic phase for your particular layout. This is due to interference (cancellation) created by the panels facing each other at various angles. The attached manual describes the process in detail.

After years of measurements and experimentation, I found that the best sound was achieved by separating the panels from each other and placing the tweeter panel in the center between (and behind) the woofer-mid panels in sort of a straight line MTW arrangement.

Such placement, with the tweeter panel centered and just touching the back side of the woofer-mid panels, presents a much superior image with very precise focus due to the panels being symetrical and "time aligned".

Also, be sure to try biamping if at all possible. The improvement is definitely worth while.

In any event, keep experimenting. The Tympani 1Ds are capable of excellent sound when properly set up.

Good Luck!

Keith
 

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WrineX,

Having owned a pair of Tympani 1D for the last 34 years, I can assure you that the diaphrams of the woofer-mid panels should be facing the listener, with the mid panel in the middle.

The best way to check for proper panel polarity is to connect a 1.5v battery to the panels. Polarity is correct when the diaphram moves away from the magnets (toward the listener) with the positive terminal of the battery indicating the + lead of the speaker.

Once basic polarity is known, you must experiment with the angle of the panels in relation to each other in order to determine the best acoustic phase for your particular layout. This is due to interference (cancellation) created by the panels facing each other at various angles. The attached manual describes the process in detail.

After years of measurements and experimentation, I found that the best sound was achieved by separating the panels from each other and placing the tweeter panel in the center between (and behind) the woofer-mid panels in sort of a straight line MTW arrangement.

Such placement, with the tweeter panel centered and just touching the back side of the woofer-mid panels, presents a much superior image with very precise focus due to the panels being symetrical and "time aligned".

Also, be sure to try biamping if at all possible. The improvement is definitely worth while.

In any event, keep experimenting. The Tympani 1Ds are capable of excellent sound when properly set up.

Good Luck!

Keith

Thanks for ur anwser. i looked at the manual and mine is a newer model with some diferent connection panel and this time with fuse holder:).

You said membrane to front :( **** just installed them otherway around, because it yielded the most output. but after reading the manual you posted i noticed that you can reverse polarity of the tweeter. so i have to swap the panels back again and reverse the polarity of my tweeter so the panels are the way they should be. but aparantly in my room tweeters sound out phase.

One importend thing , you say mid panel in the middle. if i look at screw holes, the mid panels have never been in the midle there are no screw holes there. so not even from factory.

with the right speaker , outward to inward, Tweeter , bass, midabass this is how i have it right now. i have one mid bass panel not covered with fabric and i only see screw holes for the hinges on one side so this mid panel never stood in betweet the 2 other panels.


these speakers are weird. so much fidling with direction phase and angles :)
 
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Oh i almost forgot :) the mid panels (the panel with tuning knob) does not ahve 4 connections only 2 so this is the one that is in the end of the chain.

its weird i would have chosen to have midbass as close to the treble as posiblle, apparantly magnepan thinks otherwise.


its a relief, because i almost changed it creatin new screw holes, and then discover i cant hook them up because there are no connections :) haha
 

john65b

Member
Paid Member
2005-01-09 2:32 am
Chicago
I took mine apart, and could not remember how they went together either - until I saw the four wire holes - 2 on each side - and knew it was the only one that could be in the middle...

The wierd thing was unlike the hinges of the T-IVa, they "open" both ways, so it made it difficult to find out correct orientation..

Instead of buying fabric for $30 each panel at Magnepan ($180? really?), I bought fabric from Partsexpress - $50 worth and a little time with the sewing machine, and all good...I stlll have a ton left too...my T-IVas are behind the T-ID...
 

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I took mine apart, and could not remember how they went together either - until I saw the four wire holes - 2 on each side - and knew it was the only one that could be in the middle...

The wierd thing was unlike the hinges of the T-IVa, they "open" both ways, so it made it difficult to find out correct orientation..

Instead of buying fabric for $30 each panel at Magnepan ($180? really?), I bought fabric from Partsexpress - $50 worth and a little time with the sewing machine, and all good...I stlll have a ton left too...my T-IVas are behind the T-ID...

but do you know if the wires where in the front ? or to the back ? looks on ur picture they are on the back. but is this how it was original >?

one question has being answered and that is bass is in the midle (because of the 4 connections) and mid/bass at then end. still no clue how the stock 1D is orientated with the wires fron or back... :( looks like the speakers are so old and mostly being repaired or 'tweaked' that its almost imposible to get a correct answer to that question. :(