I have made a few 3-ways with nice, robust drivers, and with those type of drivers I prefer 2nd order acoustic filters. Regardless of the speaker's size and sound level, and regardless of how each driver is constructed and implemented, it appears to me that there is always a connection between the Sd/Hz and the speaker's ability to reproduce natural and recognizable vocals. It has often surprised me how the optimal crossover – for me – ends up ½ octave higher than I had expected, based on what is recommended crossover for the drivers on various forums, as if a larger Sd alone adds "something" critically important that makes vocals "more correct". Difficult to describe.
Anyone with similar experience? Pushing tweeters and midranges too far down in frequency, … a bad habit?
I can mention some examples of crossover for drivers that I know well; my choice, and typical forum-recommended crossover which is ½ octave lower:
OWI 5000Hz (3600Hz)
Millennium 2800Hz (2000Hz)
MDM-55 1400Hz (1000Hz)
Seas MCA11 800Hz (500Hz)
AT 15H 500Hz (350Hz)
How far down a driver should be pushed depends, of course, on how the driver below it performs in its upper working range. A light, quick and clean-playing woofer can push the crossover reasonably high. And a light and quick midrange can push the crossover higher than “expected”. In any case, my point is that the speaker often sounds better when the midrange and lower treble get a slightly larger Sd than was originally planned for.
Perhaps they knew what they were doing, the gurus in the 60s/70s who believed that vocals on radio and TV sounded best when the entire midrange was covered by a widerange 8". Perhaps it is not just out of consideration for the lower octaves that todays high-end fullrange drivers are 8"?
In my old days, I have gained increased respect for vintage speakers with a typical 8" woofer, 4" midrange and 1.5" paper cone tweeter, low order cross around 1000Hz and 5000Hz. They can't play loud, but they can reproduce vocals with terrifying realism and clarity.
Opinions?
Anyone with similar experience? Pushing tweeters and midranges too far down in frequency, … a bad habit?
I can mention some examples of crossover for drivers that I know well; my choice, and typical forum-recommended crossover which is ½ octave lower:
OWI 5000Hz (3600Hz)
Millennium 2800Hz (2000Hz)
MDM-55 1400Hz (1000Hz)
Seas MCA11 800Hz (500Hz)
AT 15H 500Hz (350Hz)
How far down a driver should be pushed depends, of course, on how the driver below it performs in its upper working range. A light, quick and clean-playing woofer can push the crossover reasonably high. And a light and quick midrange can push the crossover higher than “expected”. In any case, my point is that the speaker often sounds better when the midrange and lower treble get a slightly larger Sd than was originally planned for.
Perhaps they knew what they were doing, the gurus in the 60s/70s who believed that vocals on radio and TV sounded best when the entire midrange was covered by a widerange 8". Perhaps it is not just out of consideration for the lower octaves that todays high-end fullrange drivers are 8"?
In my old days, I have gained increased respect for vintage speakers with a typical 8" woofer, 4" midrange and 1.5" paper cone tweeter, low order cross around 1000Hz and 5000Hz. They can't play loud, but they can reproduce vocals with terrifying realism and clarity.
Opinions?
I'd usually say that generic 'forum recommended' crossover frequencies are fairly meaningless without knowing anything about the context -intended crossover order, intended listening distance, average SPL at the seating position, desired headroom at the seating position, or personal preference / tolerance of different HD orders. They may be fine as a safe / first-pass option, but pulling them out of the air without further reference isn't likely to bring optimum results in a given system. As noted above, directivity / polar behaviour through the transition band is (or can be) a factor too. In general, it's better for the woofer / larger units to run out of steam before the smaller HF drivers, so in essence it comes down to knowing your own requirements, selecting and implementing to suit those as far as can be achieved for the budget. FWIW though, the pioneers would set XO frequencies based on HF point-source coil diameter & adjust from there; assuming relatively well-behaved drivers it's still a good approach.
In my experience, the best sounding vocals comes from drivers ranging from 8 to 12", with 10" probably about optimal.
They haven't made it in years, but I had a fondness for the Dynaudio 17W75 mid-bass, about 6.5" I think. It had a tremendous ability to reproduce vocals when properly applied. OTOH, there are some 2" dome midranges that seem like a good idea, but were lousy in every design I tried.
in my eyes a 8cm driver can be perfect if placed close to two boundaries like back wall and table or corner in the room. Then the voices have enough body.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...loudspeaker-sandwich-cone.402917/post-7443470
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...loudspeaker-sandwich-cone.402917/post-7443470
