Hi all, new to the forum. (before I forget, the quote is underneath the following paragraphs) So, I recently purchase an '02 M3 and the stock (not HK) 'business CD radio' is dismal. I go to a local car audio supplier/ installer not really knowing what to expect price-wise, but hoping to keep to around $1,000 total. In the listening room, I am able to listen to $250 Alpine speakers for a bit with #41 from Dave Matthews Band playing. I was impressed, BUT then he switches over to Hertz HSK 165 XL. Wow, I thought maybe they played a trick on me somehow, what a difference in clarity, the Hertz were amazing! They are quite a bit more money though.
The thought process here is to not use back speakers at all, install a sub, add a five channel amp and run the Hertz speakers mentioned up front.
I've never gone this route before(aftermarket stero), always stuck with stock stuff. I love this new (but older) car and plan on keeping it until the tires fall off.
Am I being taken to the cleaners on this bill? I know I wouldn't spend 3 grand on home audio - it is hard to justify for the car!
I know I am gunning for the more expensive speakers - but can I get just as much sound quality for less $ somehow? Thanks in advance!!
1 KDCX997 KENW Car Rcvr Lcd Bltin Blutooth 235.00
1 709003 METR Car Acc Bmw 5 Series /Vw 02 Dbl 19.99
1 999300 METR Car Acc Bmw Multi Kit 99-01 16.99
1 40EU55 METR Car Acc Vw Ant Adapter 17.99
1 HCP5D HRTZ Car Amp 5 Ch D Clas s Amp 1x330 545.00
1 XDPCS41B JL Car Acc 4 Awg Power Wire 80a 123.16
1 90423 JL Car Acc Xd Rca 2ch 12' 19.95
1 90428 JL Car Acc Xd Rca 4ch 12' 29.95
12 SGW992 STNG Car Acc Stng 9 Cndctor Spdwire 12.00
1 CS110RGW3V3 JL Car Sub Powerwedge Sealed 1 10 287.00
3 CIP SHOP Car Ins tallation Parts 10.00 (NEED 3) 30.00
1 KCAIP202 KENW Car Acc Ipod Cable Rear Cnnctn 40.00
1 SWIRC AAMP Car Acc Pac All In One Steer 75.00
32 INCAR Install Labor 640.00
1 HSK165XL HERTZ Car Spkr 6.5 Component High 495.00
TOTAL INCLUDING TAX AND LABOR $2,757.40
The thought process here is to not use back speakers at all, install a sub, add a five channel amp and run the Hertz speakers mentioned up front.
I've never gone this route before(aftermarket stero), always stuck with stock stuff. I love this new (but older) car and plan on keeping it until the tires fall off.
Am I being taken to the cleaners on this bill? I know I wouldn't spend 3 grand on home audio - it is hard to justify for the car!
I know I am gunning for the more expensive speakers - but can I get just as much sound quality for less $ somehow? Thanks in advance!!
1 KDCX997 KENW Car Rcvr Lcd Bltin Blutooth 235.00
1 709003 METR Car Acc Bmw 5 Series /Vw 02 Dbl 19.99
1 999300 METR Car Acc Bmw Multi Kit 99-01 16.99
1 40EU55 METR Car Acc Vw Ant Adapter 17.99
1 HCP5D HRTZ Car Amp 5 Ch D Clas s Amp 1x330 545.00
1 XDPCS41B JL Car Acc 4 Awg Power Wire 80a 123.16
1 90423 JL Car Acc Xd Rca 2ch 12' 19.95
1 90428 JL Car Acc Xd Rca 4ch 12' 29.95
12 SGW992 STNG Car Acc Stng 9 Cndctor Spdwire 12.00
1 CS110RGW3V3 JL Car Sub Powerwedge Sealed 1 10 287.00
3 CIP SHOP Car Ins tallation Parts 10.00 (NEED 3) 30.00
1 KCAIP202 KENW Car Acc Ipod Cable Rear Cnnctn 40.00
1 SWIRC AAMP Car Acc Pac All In One Steer 75.00
32 INCAR Install Labor 640.00
1 HSK165XL HERTZ Car Spkr 6.5 Component High 495.00
TOTAL INCLUDING TAX AND LABOR $2,757.40
Yes you are being over charged, but most installers are like that. Installing a H/U is honestly really simple. It comes with a color coded wiring harness.
1 KDCX997 KENW Car Rcvr Lcd Bltin Blutooth 235.00
- might be worth the money. IMO it's usually a good idea to grab a decent H/U.
(I bought my double din on sale for around 350, and I would take a double din any day) it's a pioneer I don't remember which model.
1 709003 METR Car Acc Bmw 5 Series /Vw 02 Dbl 19.99
1 999300 METR Car Acc Bmw Multi Kit 99-01 16.99
1 40EU55 METR Car Acc Vw Ant Adapter 17.99
- These three will be for the H/U, and are usually within that price range. If you go to a Canadian tire or future shop/best buy somewhere they will stock them also and you can get an idea.
1 HCP5D HRTZ Car Amp 5 Ch D Clas s Amp 1x330 545.00
why are you getting a five channel amp? Do you plan on only running two woofers with a sub? the 1500 watts is very misleading. Your sub will handle 500 watts rms if i'm not mistaken, give or take. this amp will put out 180 at 4ohms and 260 at 2 ohms. The sub comes in both styles, and in both instances, will be desperately under powered. I had a Jl 500/v2 (discontinued) but that thing is amazing. Beats like a monster, I got mine brand new for 350. Leaving you 200 for a dedicated 2 channel or 4 channel amp. You really only need 50 watts per channel RMS. I know your H/U says 40ish, but it's completely different.
IMO, if you add an amplifier to your current speakers, they will sound infinetely better. In my car, I have stock fronts and my buddy gave me two old 6x9's I put in the back. All four woofers are powered by an old A/B sony 1200 watt amp I got for under $100. It puts out 200 watts a channel. It's wired for both left and reft, to the "front" channel.
it's amazing, I hear lyrics in songs that were never there before, goes louder than my subs without distortion, and my gain is practically minimal.
1 XDPCS41B JL Car Acc 4 Awg Power Wire 80a 123.16
I've heard that the JL wire is actually CCA this is not worth 123.16. How many feet are you getting?
4 Awg is good, 2's better. if you want cheaper CCA, I would definetly go at least 2 Awg. If you buy good stuff and you can get away with 4 Awg.
(One is pure copper, the cheaper stuff is copper clad aluminum)
"1 90423 JL Car Acc Xd Rca 2ch 12' 19.95"
"1 90428 JL Car Acc Xd Rca 4ch 12' 29.95"
Can't imagine what the 4ch rca's are for..
I love JL, I actually have a set of their RCA's... but I don't think they're necessary. I always have a set of RCA's from Home Depot that are gold plated and what not for half the price, wouldn't know the difference.
"12 SGW992 STNG Car Acc Stng 9 Cndctor Spdwire 12.00"
Once again, this stuff is a couple bucks a foot anywhere else. How much are you using? I like to go 10 Awg here.. but that's irrevelant.
"1 CS110RGW3V3 JL Car Sub Powerwedge Sealed 1 10 287.00"
Don't do it.
This sub, first it's a 10", second it's sealed. I hope you're not expecting any output...
ask around on this forum, for 300 dollars, they could recommend countless subs that are better. I'm not bashing JL i'm just saying that setup will not give you any considerable bass. For three hundred, if it would fit, I would actually recomend their dual 12" W0 bass wedge. SQ is great. thats if you want to stay with JL.
"3 CIP SHOP Car Ins tallation Parts 10.00 (NEED 3) 30.00"
No idea what shop parts would be. They've already charged you all the parts for the H/U, speaker wire, RCA's. It could be something like washers or ring terminals. The good gold ones usually for a couple bucks a peice so it might make sense.
"1 KCAIP202 KENW Car Acc Ipod Cable Rear Cnnctn 40.00"
You're getting a blue tooth enabled H/U, Don't buy this. If you do, save 100 dollars and buy a H/U without bluetooth. Or buy it online for 20..
"1 SWIRC AAMP Car Acc Pac All In One Steer 75.00"
I just looked that up on google, first click said it was 39.99. So yes they're getting an extra 35 dollars out of you.
"32 INCAR Install Labor 640.00"
An expensive shop around my house charges $100 an hour. This install will not take them 6.4 hours gaurenteed. An hour tops for H/U, maybe an hour to get amps running, cables hidden. And an hour for tuning? Sounds like a while if you ask me.
"1 HSK165XL HERTZ Car Spkr 6.5 Component High 495.00"
Once again, I'm running stock speakers, and $10 rears. Usually speakers sound so bad because your H/U underpowers them, and clips them to complete distortion. Proper (read sufficient) power to these speakers will bring them back to life.
Do not buy those. IMO, don't spend more on speakers than on your sub.
Other notes:
1st: explain your plan with the five channel amp
2: why are you removing your rear speakers?
3: do you have any tweeters or anything that you are keeping?
4: does that car come equipped with a "pre-amp".
1 KDCX997 KENW Car Rcvr Lcd Bltin Blutooth 235.00
- might be worth the money. IMO it's usually a good idea to grab a decent H/U.
(I bought my double din on sale for around 350, and I would take a double din any day) it's a pioneer I don't remember which model.
1 709003 METR Car Acc Bmw 5 Series /Vw 02 Dbl 19.99
1 999300 METR Car Acc Bmw Multi Kit 99-01 16.99
1 40EU55 METR Car Acc Vw Ant Adapter 17.99
- These three will be for the H/U, and are usually within that price range. If you go to a Canadian tire or future shop/best buy somewhere they will stock them also and you can get an idea.
1 HCP5D HRTZ Car Amp 5 Ch D Clas s Amp 1x330 545.00
why are you getting a five channel amp? Do you plan on only running two woofers with a sub? the 1500 watts is very misleading. Your sub will handle 500 watts rms if i'm not mistaken, give or take. this amp will put out 180 at 4ohms and 260 at 2 ohms. The sub comes in both styles, and in both instances, will be desperately under powered. I had a Jl 500/v2 (discontinued) but that thing is amazing. Beats like a monster, I got mine brand new for 350. Leaving you 200 for a dedicated 2 channel or 4 channel amp. You really only need 50 watts per channel RMS. I know your H/U says 40ish, but it's completely different.
IMO, if you add an amplifier to your current speakers, they will sound infinetely better. In my car, I have stock fronts and my buddy gave me two old 6x9's I put in the back. All four woofers are powered by an old A/B sony 1200 watt amp I got for under $100. It puts out 200 watts a channel. It's wired for both left and reft, to the "front" channel.
it's amazing, I hear lyrics in songs that were never there before, goes louder than my subs without distortion, and my gain is practically minimal.
1 XDPCS41B JL Car Acc 4 Awg Power Wire 80a 123.16
I've heard that the JL wire is actually CCA this is not worth 123.16. How many feet are you getting?
4 Awg is good, 2's better. if you want cheaper CCA, I would definetly go at least 2 Awg. If you buy good stuff and you can get away with 4 Awg.
(One is pure copper, the cheaper stuff is copper clad aluminum)
"1 90423 JL Car Acc Xd Rca 2ch 12' 19.95"
"1 90428 JL Car Acc Xd Rca 4ch 12' 29.95"
Can't imagine what the 4ch rca's are for..
I love JL, I actually have a set of their RCA's... but I don't think they're necessary. I always have a set of RCA's from Home Depot that are gold plated and what not for half the price, wouldn't know the difference.
"12 SGW992 STNG Car Acc Stng 9 Cndctor Spdwire 12.00"
Once again, this stuff is a couple bucks a foot anywhere else. How much are you using? I like to go 10 Awg here.. but that's irrevelant.
"1 CS110RGW3V3 JL Car Sub Powerwedge Sealed 1 10 287.00"
Don't do it.
This sub, first it's a 10", second it's sealed. I hope you're not expecting any output...
ask around on this forum, for 300 dollars, they could recommend countless subs that are better. I'm not bashing JL i'm just saying that setup will not give you any considerable bass. For three hundred, if it would fit, I would actually recomend their dual 12" W0 bass wedge. SQ is great. thats if you want to stay with JL.
"3 CIP SHOP Car Ins tallation Parts 10.00 (NEED 3) 30.00"
No idea what shop parts would be. They've already charged you all the parts for the H/U, speaker wire, RCA's. It could be something like washers or ring terminals. The good gold ones usually for a couple bucks a peice so it might make sense.
"1 KCAIP202 KENW Car Acc Ipod Cable Rear Cnnctn 40.00"
You're getting a blue tooth enabled H/U, Don't buy this. If you do, save 100 dollars and buy a H/U without bluetooth. Or buy it online for 20..
"1 SWIRC AAMP Car Acc Pac All In One Steer 75.00"
I just looked that up on google, first click said it was 39.99. So yes they're getting an extra 35 dollars out of you.
"32 INCAR Install Labor 640.00"
An expensive shop around my house charges $100 an hour. This install will not take them 6.4 hours gaurenteed. An hour tops for H/U, maybe an hour to get amps running, cables hidden. And an hour for tuning? Sounds like a while if you ask me.
"1 HSK165XL HERTZ Car Spkr 6.5 Component High 495.00"
Once again, I'm running stock speakers, and $10 rears. Usually speakers sound so bad because your H/U underpowers them, and clips them to complete distortion. Proper (read sufficient) power to these speakers will bring them back to life.
Do not buy those. IMO, don't spend more on speakers than on your sub.
Other notes:
1st: explain your plan with the five channel amp
2: why are you removing your rear speakers?
3: do you have any tweeters or anything that you are keeping?
4: does that car come equipped with a "pre-amp".
Does the stock head unit have all the features you want to play your music? (not talking about sound ) If so, check out an JBL MS-8 processer. It will work with the factory radio. (hint check ebay for factory remanufactured - straight from JBL)
I also own the Hertz HDP4 amp - I highly recommend it. Very good sound and great dynamics. Listened to a lot of different amps in my system till I found the Hertz. with the MS-8 the staging snapped right in place. (replaced my older PPI am series amps for my front stage)
The Hertz Speakers are wonderful. they are worth the cost. check out the Mille line.
The equipment they have picked out is all proven great performers. The install prices may be on par if they are doing a high end job. (building amp rack - custom sub box - making every thing look like stock )
I did install car audio for 20 years, now it's just a passion. Processing in the car is the real key to making it sound good.
Another thing to remember is installation is very important - for a good read look up Hybrid Audio Tech speakers owner manuals - the last section Advanced System Installation.
it is nice to see you are doing research on everything.
Anothertime
I also own the Hertz HDP4 amp - I highly recommend it. Very good sound and great dynamics. Listened to a lot of different amps in my system till I found the Hertz. with the MS-8 the staging snapped right in place. (replaced my older PPI am series amps for my front stage)
The Hertz Speakers are wonderful. they are worth the cost. check out the Mille line.
The equipment they have picked out is all proven great performers. The install prices may be on par if they are doing a high end job. (building amp rack - custom sub box - making every thing look like stock )
I did install car audio for 20 years, now it's just a passion. Processing in the car is the real key to making it sound good.
Another thing to remember is installation is very important - for a good read look up Hybrid Audio Tech speakers owner manuals - the last section Advanced System Installation.
it is nice to see you are doing research on everything.
Anothertime
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