Hello everyone, new here and a hungry aspiring tech! I really am saddened to see that not many people service (properly) around my area and even times I have had service it left a little to be desired. That being said, I am not expecting to be able to learn decades of tech experience over night but I want to start learning. I have nothing but time and dedication so why not. I have a perfect opportunity to get started as my Crown amplifier recently failed.
Anyhow! Question is, can any experts give me some advice as what tools to purchase. At the present moment I have a Weller Digital Soldering Station - WE1010NA, a Fluke 115 DMM but I think I will need at some point at least a signal generator, an Oscilloscope, Voltage monitor, filter, probably more? I do not want to go drop thousands of dollars but just get an idea of what I need to get started. Thank you!!!
Anyhow! Question is, can any experts give me some advice as what tools to purchase. At the present moment I have a Weller Digital Soldering Station - WE1010NA, a Fluke 115 DMM but I think I will need at some point at least a signal generator, an Oscilloscope, Voltage monitor, filter, probably more? I do not want to go drop thousands of dollars but just get an idea of what I need to get started. Thank you!!!
If you have a decent PC, you can get a USB scope for around $100 and up, it also will need a couple of x10 probes.
New analog scopes are not around much these days, but used ones are. A Variac is handy also.
New analog scopes are not around much these days, but used ones are. A Variac is handy also.
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You need to do some homework before you start probing. It helps a lot to know what you are looking for and how to interpret what you see. Then how to translate that knowledge into what to fix.
Something like this may be ideal for you at this phase: https://www.amazon.com/Oscilloscope...oscilloscope,aps,139&sr=8-179#customerReviews $43. Its not a premium Tek/Keysight/LeCroy BUT is cheap enough to be disposable if damaged and portable and battery powered so little worry about grounding issues and zapping something accidentally. Both are very important when checking in the field. However you still need to be careful around higher voltages. Its also a DVM and a Signal generator and comes with a switchable probe.
USB scopes are great for some things (I have 4) but klutzy for general quick troubleshooting. Too much time at the keyboard. . .
Something like this may be ideal for you at this phase: https://www.amazon.com/Oscilloscope...oscilloscope,aps,139&sr=8-179#customerReviews $43. Its not a premium Tek/Keysight/LeCroy BUT is cheap enough to be disposable if damaged and portable and battery powered so little worry about grounding issues and zapping something accidentally. Both are very important when checking in the field. However you still need to be careful around higher voltages. Its also a DVM and a Signal generator and comes with a switchable probe.
USB scopes are great for some things (I have 4) but klutzy for general quick troubleshooting. Too much time at the keyboard. . .
Definitely in the HW stage for sure. I am spending this long weekend and more on that 🙂
Thank you for this, I think you are right, for the money ever if I end up throwing it away or it breaks in a month, can't go wrong.
Thank you.
Thank you for this, I think you are right, for the money ever if I end up throwing it away or it breaks in a month, can't go wrong.
Thank you.
If you want to go for audio, get a 50MHz two channel digital scope. For a beginner the PC based adapters are confusing and complicated. A stand allone scope is much simpler and does not depend on driver, software, Windows version and installation tricks.
IMO it is wasted time to buy a used, "normal" scope and learn how to use it (complicated!).
You get much more with a modern digiscope (more self explaining, help aviable). Component tester, voltmeter, frequency counter etc. are included and save you space and money.
Rigol is considered the thing to buy if you don't know what to look for. If you find out you don't need it any more, you can sell it at hardly no loss, while other unknown stuff goes away only cheap.
Look for Rigol DS1054Z or better. They are around 400$ and work very well. They often have some kind of sale.
Look what software is included, some are only the basic version, some include upgrades that are expensive bought later and separate.
So a 379$ new can be much cheaper than a 299$ used one! All the probes are new and included, nothing missing. Important point for me. Also the 3 year Warranty (in Germany) is nice.
As a signal generator, a sound card or CD player should do for a start. No need to buy right now.
IMO it is wasted time to buy a used, "normal" scope and learn how to use it (complicated!).
You get much more with a modern digiscope (more self explaining, help aviable). Component tester, voltmeter, frequency counter etc. are included and save you space and money.
Rigol is considered the thing to buy if you don't know what to look for. If you find out you don't need it any more, you can sell it at hardly no loss, while other unknown stuff goes away only cheap.
Look for Rigol DS1054Z or better. They are around 400$ and work very well. They often have some kind of sale.
Look what software is included, some are only the basic version, some include upgrades that are expensive bought later and separate.
So a 379$ new can be much cheaper than a 299$ used one! All the probes are new and included, nothing missing. Important point for me. Also the 3 year Warranty (in Germany) is nice.
As a signal generator, a sound card or CD player should do for a start. No need to buy right now.
Thank you!! I just ordered one and got 17% price reduction due to Black Friday deal.
After tools a good knowledge of how amplifiers work is vital.
A knowledge of power supplies.
A knowledge of how to test components.
A safe way of working with high voltages.
A knowledge of power supplies.
A knowledge of how to test components.
A safe way of working with high voltages.
One usually builds a dim lamp test fixture when testing amplifiers or use a more expensive variac. I have a variac but generally use the dim lamp since it does the job. I use a 100w incandescent lamp. My fixture had a power switch and a switch to short out the lamp. Just makes it easier to not have to move the power plug because the dim lamp test is usually a quick go, no-go test for gross line shorts.
I would second the idea of getting an analogue scope. IMO, because it has hardware controls, it'll be easier to learn principles on than scrolling around menus. In the UK today, I can see a Hameg 203 for £75 (under $100 USD) and there are Japanese scopes such as Hitachi often for similar cost. A Tek 465 is a workhorse, but might cost a little more.
You could also consider a soundcard and FFT software as well (there are many threads here). Make sure to use a x10 probe on power amps! And be sure to take precautions around anything that might kills its inputs. But you can have such a setup for maybe even less than a scope if you get the card secondhand.
You could also consider a soundcard and FFT software as well (there are many threads here). Make sure to use a x10 probe on power amps! And be sure to take precautions around anything that might kills its inputs. But you can have such a setup for maybe even less than a scope if you get the card secondhand.
Sorry to disagree, you will not see any analog scopes used by pro's any more. So in examples and post you see something different from what you have on your table. So "learning the basics" leads you no where, as you don't understand todays tool.
I still have a Hitachi 2-channel analog scope, but my primary focus is around loudspeaker, simple amps and power supplies.
If I would start electronics for a hobby today, even a used scope, frequency counter, component tester, function generator, distortion bridge and micro voltmeter cost more than a new, work horse digi scope, which contains most of these separate devices.
You can read so many important data in clear letters from these new scopes which you don't get from an analog or only with complicated calculations. So your learning curve is much steeper. Take postage into consideration, a huge cost factor when buying used and the fuzz with non working stuff!
Another point, you don't get the precission this new, guaranteed product of today has, for little money.
I have seen RIGOL scopes, which seem to be the new standard, like a HAMEG at my time, new for as low as 300€. I don't want to bother with stuff from the last millenium for that little money.
Last, look for these modern scopes used. You will find they hardly loose their value if you sell them in a year or two.
I still have a Hitachi 2-channel analog scope, but my primary focus is around loudspeaker, simple amps and power supplies.
If I would start electronics for a hobby today, even a used scope, frequency counter, component tester, function generator, distortion bridge and micro voltmeter cost more than a new, work horse digi scope, which contains most of these separate devices.
You can read so many important data in clear letters from these new scopes which you don't get from an analog or only with complicated calculations. So your learning curve is much steeper. Take postage into consideration, a huge cost factor when buying used and the fuzz with non working stuff!
Another point, you don't get the precission this new, guaranteed product of today has, for little money.
I have seen RIGOL scopes, which seem to be the new standard, like a HAMEG at my time, new for as low as 300€. I don't want to bother with stuff from the last millenium for that little money.
Last, look for these modern scopes used. You will find they hardly loose their value if you sell them in a year or two.
For a basic signal generator even your phone will do with a signal generator app.
It will provide sinus, square-wave ad triangle shape including functions like noise, sweeps and more.
It uses your headphone output.
Maybe not the best in linearity / frequency stability but you can check if an analogue signal comes through your amplifier with the expected amplification.
A few high power 8 ohm resistors are nice to have too ;-)
It will provide sinus, square-wave ad triangle shape including functions like noise, sweeps and more.
It uses your headphone output.
Maybe not the best in linearity / frequency stability but you can check if an analogue signal comes through your amplifier with the expected amplification.
A few high power 8 ohm resistors are nice to have too ;-)
Second the audio interface for signal generation. REW will drive it and can measure distortion and response easily. I've got an inexpensive scarlett 2i2 that I use.
Thank you everyone so far, great information! I decided to get an analog scope to start with (shopping around), even though pros may only be using digital I am most certainly NOT a pro so why not start with analog and then progress out, that is my thought 🙂 I have purchased a transistor tester, a couple soldering stations and now I want to be patient and see about finding some other equipment. But once I can put together a nice bench, I will let everyone know. And, if there are any people like me that are trying to get started, please PM me and we can exchange information and ideas! Thank you!
If you are a beginner, things should be keept simple. A soundcard or USB interfache makes a nice generator/ measuring device, but is quite sensible to wrong connections. Depending on how far you are in computer & electronics it might be not so easy to convince REW, Arta or whatever to deliver on the right output what you need. So maybe don't use your best PC or Laptop as a workshop tool. There are many ways to connect something wrong, but in most cases only one combination that is right... A real generator is build to take some abuse.
Don't spend too much on used electronics, It doesn't matter that a scope was 2000$ 20 years ago, you overpay if you even give 10% of that today!
Even worse with analyzer stuff, which had a 50.000$ price tag in 1990. Today no one knows how to service such gear and a lot of this stuff is given away for free, if you know someone and pick it up at the back door.
Don't spend too much on used electronics, It doesn't matter that a scope was 2000$ 20 years ago, you overpay if you even give 10% of that today!
Even worse with analyzer stuff, which had a 50.000$ price tag in 1990. Today no one knows how to service such gear and a lot of this stuff is given away for free, if you know someone and pick it up at the back door.
I wrote this some time ago but it should still be useful- https://www.conradhoffman.com/troubleshoottut.htm
Times change and what I'd buy today might be different than what I'd buy ten years ago, at least some of it. Most people starting out seem to focus on powered testing, signals and probing. IMO, that should come late in the game for most problems. By the time I power up and probe, I've usually already located and fixed the problem. A lot less smoke gets released that way.
Times change and what I'd buy today might be different than what I'd buy ten years ago, at least some of it. Most people starting out seem to focus on powered testing, signals and probing. IMO, that should come late in the game for most problems. By the time I power up and probe, I've usually already located and fixed the problem. A lot less smoke gets released that way.
It is the same with any technical stuff, some can overhaul an engine in the parking lot, others not even in the best equiped workshop.
It is astonishing how far you get with amplfier stuff, only using a multimeter and a soldering iron.
On the other hand, a lot of audio faults is stereo with only one side working. Using a scope speeds things up a lot with such problems.
It is astonishing how far you get with amplfier stuff, only using a multimeter and a soldering iron.
On the other hand, a lot of audio faults is stereo with only one side working. Using a scope speeds things up a lot with such problems.
Now that you are getting your gear figured out, let's turn our attention to your workspace....I'm a firm believer in fully usable lighting for your workbench. Know what I oddly discovered?, those common large "grow-lights" seem perfect for illumination on a workbench, the "white-color" is calibrated as "sunshine"....go figure.
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I agree that a digital scope will give more functionality and will be easier to work with than an analogue one in many ways (you won't have to think about how it's scaled for example - it'll give you RMS and Peak in realtime). I suggested an analogue scope as they are so easy to get at low prices if you look around. If you're patient, you can probably get a working analogue scope for 50 Euros. I don't know the hand-held digital ones, but the bench-top ones such as Rigol etc are a few hundred Euros, and it wasn't clear if the OP wanted to spend that much. A digital scope will make paying the rent easier. An analogue one may be more fun if you're starting out and want a more manual experience. I use my digital scopes for fault finding or capturing stuff that an FFT can't (they get more use than the analogue ones, which are for fun really). They sometimes don't get switched on for weeks. The FFT is on all day, every day.
Actually, recently I got a new PicoScope for the lab guys at work, since they were having a lot of issues with the Rigol we have as well. (was to confusing for them)
It almost can't get more straightforward, especially the new version 7 is super easy to use.
I already have another scope at home, otherwise I would switch immediately.
Additional bonus is the arbitrary waveform and function generator.