NEO10 + NEO3 dipole?

phxdemon

Member
2012-12-11 1:32 pm
I found a deal I couldn't pass up on a pair of these drivers and wanted to try a build using them. My thoughts are a 3 way tower with the neo10 mid + neo3 tweet in an open baffle configuration with a peerless sls8 ported on the bottom and wanted some input from the experts.

Driver arrangement (all drivers vertically placed)
T
M
some empty space
W

I already have the SLS 8 woofers so will there be any issues with them due to the sensitivity/impedance/etc? I am also throwing around the idea of picking up another pair to run 2 drivers in each bottom cabinet and up the sensitivity a bit to match the neos.

The baffle will be only 2 feet from the wall with the speakers placed 5 feet apart in the corner of an L shaped room which makes me think there may be issues with running them dipole?

Crossover frequency/slope/design input?

Link to drivers
sls 8
Parts Express
neo10
Parts Express
neo3
Parts Express

Thanks for your input
 
I'm curious if you have seen the Serenity Acoustics Super 7 loudspeaker? It's similar to your proposed project using the NEO10 & 3, but has this arrangement:

M
M
T
M
M
W
W

Also it's different in that it uses servo subs so the sensitivity difference is taken care of inherently. I know this doesn't answer any of your questions. Just wanted to share in case you haven't seen it yet.
 

phxdemon

Member
2012-12-11 1:32 pm
I'm curious if you have seen the Serenity Acoustics Super 7 loudspeaker? It's similar to your proposed project using the NEO10 & 3, but has this arrangement:

M
M
T
M
M
W
W

Also it's different in that it uses servo subs so the sensitivity difference is taken care of inherently. I know this doesn't answer any of your questions. Just wanted to share in case you haven't seen it yet.

Will check out thanks! I was trying to keep this build somewhat budget oriented which is the reason why I am trying to work with standard motor subs and not stacking multiple neo10s. Vertical dispersion isn't a huge concern as I plan to have the neo10s right at ear level for critical listening.
 
There are numerous threads talking about it over at the GR Research circle on AudioCircle, but this thread probably has the most design info about it: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)

edit: Forgot to say, even though you're on a budget now at least you know the NEO drivers you bought will serve you well through potentially multiple projects in the future. Someday I would like to take a go at cloning the Super 7 for studio/critical listening use. That speaker draws many things together that I've been wanting to see in one design.
 
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phxdemon

Member
2012-12-11 1:32 pm

I am more or less trying to copy that design with a single 8 inch woofer in the bottom cab. I am still lost as to designing the crossover.I tried using Jeffs passive crossover designer but could not find frd files for any of the drivers. When I tried using spl trace to make my own frd file and loaded it it didn't load anything.

I even read through the "designing your own crossover" thread which was very informative but I have no idea what to do about the rising FR of the NEO10.
 

phxdemon

Member
2012-12-11 1:32 pm
I modeled a crossover in Passive speaker designer but I am sure I am doing something wrong (based off the low sensitivity and the woofer breakup). I am thinking it will be best to just drop the coin on the dayton usb mic and measure the drivers individually. As I understand it is best to run this with caps so I don't damage the drivers. Any specific cap values I should use?

Heres the FR I got after modeling the enclosure and crossover. I didn't mess with impedance graphs because as I understand it is pretty flat across the board for the neo drivers?

qAeyd6m.jpg
 
I am more or less trying to copy that design with a single 8 inch woofer in the bottom cab. I am still lost as to designing the crossover.I tried using Jeffs passive crossover designer but could not find frd files for any of the drivers. When I tried using spl trace to make my own frd file and loaded it it didn't load anything.

I even read through the "designing your own crossover" thread which was very informative but I have no idea what to do about the rising FR of the NEO10.

Maybe you've figured it out by now, but if not... I'm not sure if you can take the traces directly into PCD; I've never tried it.

You should make both a FR and Imp. trace then take those into JB's Response Modeler. Load the trace FRD at the top using the appropriate tab and load Imp. file in the impedance section. Enter the TS parameters for the driver and box size in the impedance section and the baffle dimensions at the bottom. Then include the baffle effects in your FR plot at the top.

Now click save modified response tab. Also save modified impedance file.

Now create min phase versions of those saved modified files using the two phase tabs in the impedance section.

Now you should have two files that reflect the baffle and vb of your enclosure and the correct phase that you can take into PCD.

Use the new min phase files in PCD for driver frd. and imp. You will not use the trace files any longer unless you change your box size or baffle in which case you'll need to repeat the Response Modeler steps.

That's about it. I've found this way much easier than trying to use the FRD consortium steps and programs like edge.

The best way of course is to measure your drivers in your box.
 
I am more or less trying to copy that design with a single 8 inch woofer in the bottom cab. I am still lost as to designing the crossover.I tried using Jeffs passive crossover designer but could not find frd files for any of the drivers. When I tried using spl trace to make my own frd file and loaded it it didn't load anything.

I even read through the "designing your own crossover" thread which was very informative but I have no idea what to do about the rising FR of the NEO10.

Maybe you've figured it out by now, but if not... I'm not sure if you can take the traces directly into PCD; I've never tried it.

You should make both a FR and Imp. trace then take those into JB's Response Modeler. Load the trace FRD at the top using the appropriate tab and load Imp. file in the impedance section. Enter the TS parameters for the driver and box size in the impedance section and the baffle dimensions at the bottom. Then include the baffle effects in your FR plot at the top.

Now click save modified response tab. Also save modified impedance file.

Now create min phase versions of those saved modified files using the two phase tabs in the impedance section.

Now you should have two files that reflect the baffle and vb of your enclosure and the correct phase that you can take into PCD.

Use the new min phase files in PCD for driver frd. and imp. You will not use the trace files any longer unless you change your box size or baffle in which case you'll need to repeat the Response Modeler steps.

That's about it. I've found this way much easier than trying to use the FRD consortium steps and programs like edge.

The best way of course is to measure your drivers in your box.
 
Where can I find this JB response modeler you're talking about?
Is it available to forum members?
It may be what I've been looking for...

Sorry, JB is Jeff Bagby. Here's the link Loudspeaker Design Software

Make sure you follow the steps above to get accurate results and don't skip the phase extractor step. If you don't use the phase extracted frd and zma files your crossovers probably won't perform as modeled.