Hello.
I work on a new speaker set up to use with my two Linn Klouts via a Bryston active crossover.
The woofers are Electro Magnet Speakers Fertin B15ex and i currently use ESS Heil vintage tweeters.
I put 4.7 microfarads i had in hand in serial with the tweeter because it was simply too bright and now it's acceptable.
I use 1000hz crossover frequency.
Someone can recommend me a brand and value of a correct capacitor.
Best regards.
I work on a new speaker set up to use with my two Linn Klouts via a Bryston active crossover.
The woofers are Electro Magnet Speakers Fertin B15ex and i currently use ESS Heil vintage tweeters.
I put 4.7 microfarads i had in hand in serial with the tweeter because it was simply too bright and now it's acceptable.
I use 1000hz crossover frequency.
Someone can recommend me a brand and value of a correct capacitor.
Best regards.
Last edited:
Your post lacks detail.
Are you using a blocking Capacitor after the power amp to prevent heating due to dc offset?
or are you wanting to do a 6 db HP in conjunction with the input resistance of your amp?
What's your tweeter?
Doug
Are you using a blocking Capacitor after the power amp to prevent heating due to dc offset?
or are you wanting to do a 6 db HP in conjunction with the input resistance of your amp?
What's your tweeter?
Doug
Looks like it's a Great Heil, but setup for best vertical dispersion?! 😕
Not enough info for sure
Hi,
Yes, why the Heil had a rotation of 90° ? To have the dispersion of a line array ?
Caps test : Humble Homemade Hifi
2 seems pleasant : audyn true copper : audiophonics.fr and Rike audio S cap aluminium paper in oil : www.lautsprechershop.de
As the EMS is given for 15K hz before roll off, 10 K for the Heil seems good decision but for pleasure you can test between 1,5 and 2 K hz. Maybe 2,5 k hz is a limit for the Heil to avoid air resonance with diaphragm ribbon
How does the BEX15 sound ? I wanted use it as it is said to be excelent. But low Qts factor for OB design and 16 homs...tubes or Quad amp addict ! Did you stay the powesupply of the driver always on because as all EMS sing better after the PS is switched on for 2 hours ?
Which voltage did you choose for QTS ? Laboratory powersupply ? Did you measure the curve below 200 hz ? Any capture ?
Maybe you can ask to Mr Fertin himself, very humble and gentleman and long long experience... I know it prefers a quarter wave for it. And its little 5" paper cone in OB with the 15"... sure the Heil will works too !
By the way, beautifull project...tell us more, please !
Yes, why the Heil had a rotation of 90° ? To have the dispersion of a line array ?
Caps test : Humble Homemade Hifi
2 seems pleasant : audyn true copper : audiophonics.fr and Rike audio S cap aluminium paper in oil : www.lautsprechershop.de
As the EMS is given for 15K hz before roll off, 10 K for the Heil seems good decision but for pleasure you can test between 1,5 and 2 K hz. Maybe 2,5 k hz is a limit for the Heil to avoid air resonance with diaphragm ribbon
How does the BEX15 sound ? I wanted use it as it is said to be excelent. But low Qts factor for OB design and 16 homs...tubes or Quad amp addict ! Did you stay the powesupply of the driver always on because as all EMS sing better after the PS is switched on for 2 hours ?
Which voltage did you choose for QTS ? Laboratory powersupply ? Did you measure the curve below 200 hz ? Any capture ?
Maybe you can ask to Mr Fertin himself, very humble and gentleman and long long experience... I know it prefers a quarter wave for it. And its little 5" paper cone in OB with the 15"... sure the Heil will works too !
By the way, beautifull project...tell us more, please !
Last edited:
FORGETT:
Assuming it's a two way...
As a little first aid : think your cap at 4,7 uf is a high pass filter (first order : 6 db) at something 2100 hz. That's maybe why you find the tweeter better, I read the Heil is better beginning at 2 or 2,5 k hz !
Ask to speacialist here what is the addition of the slope of your active XO + the 6 dB slope of the cap protection ? Which XO slope with your active for medium and for tweeter ?
Maybe you can test this : third order + caps for High Pass at 2Khz
(your cap is OK, maybe try with a // 100 nf of good quality : Polystyren MIT RTX for example (not expensive : the last one are to be sold now !) but not yet as said before.
Or : first order, direct with your 1 uF cap, no active XO : here the XO is 10 k hz but on two octave mini.
Don't buy expensive caps before set up with basics one, the set up is more important than the quality of the cap, you choose after experiment in your final set up for ultimate quality. Happy myself with the Audyn true copper.
Some online calculator : http://www.mh-audio.nl/spk_calc.asp
If I write stupid things, some specialists will tell you.
Assuming it's a two way...
As a little first aid : think your cap at 4,7 uf is a high pass filter (first order : 6 db) at something 2100 hz. That's maybe why you find the tweeter better, I read the Heil is better beginning at 2 or 2,5 k hz !
Ask to speacialist here what is the addition of the slope of your active XO + the 6 dB slope of the cap protection ? Which XO slope with your active for medium and for tweeter ?
Maybe you can test this : third order + caps for High Pass at 2Khz
(your cap is OK, maybe try with a // 100 nf of good quality : Polystyren MIT RTX for example (not expensive : the last one are to be sold now !) but not yet as said before.
Or : first order, direct with your 1 uF cap, no active XO : here the XO is 10 k hz but on two octave mini.
Don't buy expensive caps before set up with basics one, the set up is more important than the quality of the cap, you choose after experiment in your final set up for ultimate quality. Happy myself with the Audyn true copper.
Some online calculator : http://www.mh-audio.nl/spk_calc.asp
If I write stupid things, some specialists will tell you.
Thanks to your replies.
Yes i know the tweeters are in the incorrect position but it seems if i remove the aluminium angles the tweeter will split in two, These came from ESS amt1a Bookshelf speakers and the tweeter was mounted on the front and maybe a little bit different from the Grand Heil, I will build an enclosure for them as soon i have spare time and put new diaphragms. How you can named a speaker Bookshelf when it had a 15 inch woofer.
I know too it is not recommended to use the B15EX on open baffle but i simply don't have the place for Onken enclosures, this is a temporary cheap and simple solution i found on the net and the enclosure can be reuse.
I know there are 16 ohm version of the B15EX but mines are 8 ohm and i use two transistors stereo amplifiers, 20 years old Linn Klout with an Bryston active crossover.
The power supply i use are surplus from D-Box Mammoth subwoofer who was using a Fertin 18 inch electro magnet speaker. Very few seems to have been made and they where very expensive. i found 4 of these power supply at an electronic parts store at 10$ each. they are rated 13.8 volts 2.25 amps.
I am still break-in the woofers and didn't make very much experiment but i watch All the morning of the world a movie about a viol player and it was magnificent.
I know EMS now have a Electro magnet tweeter and i still have two power supply left but at 750 canadian looney each i want to listen to them before.
I speak french too.
Yes i know the tweeters are in the incorrect position but it seems if i remove the aluminium angles the tweeter will split in two, These came from ESS amt1a Bookshelf speakers and the tweeter was mounted on the front and maybe a little bit different from the Grand Heil, I will build an enclosure for them as soon i have spare time and put new diaphragms. How you can named a speaker Bookshelf when it had a 15 inch woofer.
I know too it is not recommended to use the B15EX on open baffle but i simply don't have the place for Onken enclosures, this is a temporary cheap and simple solution i found on the net and the enclosure can be reuse.
I know there are 16 ohm version of the B15EX but mines are 8 ohm and i use two transistors stereo amplifiers, 20 years old Linn Klout with an Bryston active crossover.
The power supply i use are surplus from D-Box Mammoth subwoofer who was using a Fertin 18 inch electro magnet speaker. Very few seems to have been made and they where very expensive. i found 4 of these power supply at an electronic parts store at 10$ each. they are rated 13.8 volts 2.25 amps.
I am still break-in the woofers and didn't make very much experiment but i watch All the morning of the world a movie about a viol player and it was magnificent.
I know EMS now have a Electro magnet tweeter and i still have two power supply left but at 750 canadian looney each i want to listen to them before.
I speak french too.
Someone tell me to plug the Heil directy but it was too bright anyway, i found on the net a capacitor is necessary to not fry the tweeter.
Sorry about the questions.
I assume that it was delayed on the server.
When I replied, there was only a Title.
Best of luck.
Doug
I assume that it was delayed on the server.
When I replied, there was only a Title.
Best of luck.
Doug
(your cap is OK, maybe try with a // 100 nf of good quality :
A cap in parallel really, i need to go to my favourite electronic store to find acceptable caps for experimentations. And do real testing. i have a sound level meter and a CD of various frequencies.
A cap in parallel really, i need to go to my favourite electronic store to find acceptable caps for experimentations. And do real testing. i have a sound level meter and a CD of various frequencies.
Yes, after all the cap here is a first order filter.
Read the caps test at Humblehomehifi...
Klout are killers, and their warm and little damped sound match with the clear ex15 and Heil.
Look at the datashet of your ems for understanding Qts and voltage PS or call mr Fertin at EMS for Data.
Try the two caps set up first and use active or maybe just a passive pot for tweeter db ajustment. Be carefull for watt limit for the pot , ask your dealer...
Well you are a Canafrench....i would.like to be a frenchglish...cause i rapt the Shakespeare language every day
Read the caps test at Humblehomehifi...
Klout are killers, and their warm and little damped sound match with the clear ex15 and Heil.
Look at the datashet of your ems for understanding Qts and voltage PS or call mr Fertin at EMS for Data.
Try the two caps set up first and use active or maybe just a passive pot for tweeter db ajustment. Be carefull for watt limit for the pot , ask your dealer...
Well you are a Canafrench....i would.like to be a frenchglish...cause i rapt the Shakespeare language every day
The capacitor connected between the power amp and the tweeter does two jobs.
It blocks DC and thus helps prevent damage.
It attenuates LF and thus helps prevent damage.
In the second it can be sized large, to NOT affect the passband of the active filter + amplifier + tweeter.
Or
It can be sized small, to add a further passive roll-off to the combined roll-off stated above.
The large sized version is probably the minimum that should be used for tweeter protection.
It blocks DC and thus helps prevent damage.
It attenuates LF and thus helps prevent damage.
In the second it can be sized large, to NOT affect the passband of the active filter + amplifier + tweeter.
Or
It can be sized small, to add a further passive roll-off to the combined roll-off stated above.
The large sized version is probably the minimum that should be used for tweeter protection.
centDB :
Document sans-titre
you will see with a 6 db first order Heil with a cap (roll off at something beginning at 3k hz so less value than your cap, follow at the end AndrewT advises to protect your drivers) and wide band Heil.
My understanding of the waterfall is you can use a 24 db slope = 4° order around 2 k hz or following the above A second order at higher frequency. In theory 2K to 8000K is a no go because ears sensivity but good designers (I'm not, just beginner). Maybe with the wide Band EMS EX15 and double cone, you can try the XO at 8K to 10 k !
good luck
Document sans-titre
you will see with a 6 db first order Heil with a cap (roll off at something beginning at 3k hz so less value than your cap, follow at the end AndrewT advises to protect your drivers) and wide band Heil.
My understanding of the waterfall is you can use a 24 db slope = 4° order around 2 k hz or following the above A second order at higher frequency. In theory 2K to 8000K is a no go because ears sensivity but good designers (I'm not, just beginner). Maybe with the wide Band EMS EX15 and double cone, you can try the XO at 8K to 10 k !
good luck
the Tweeter expects an AC signal.
The cap feeding the tweeter must be rated for that AC signal !
A big polypropylene motor run capacitor is a good non-audiofool device to use here for option 1.
For option 2. (extra passive roll-off) a smaller motor run or general AC duty polypropylene capacitor is suitable.
thanks, I learned something....
As a sony Walkman or PortableBoomBox is a better device than audio-fool AMT, stupid Electro Magnet Speaker... or my audio-fool Kef 104/2, my stupid Boston Lynfield 400L😀 which have totaly different sound when i change the crappy 1 uF PP cap // to the 10 ohms resitors which too sound totaly different if non inductive or cement ?! It's just 1% of the sound but it changes the 99 other % !
I waste my time with fool Verdi stupid operas😛.... I have to listen to the sound of stars and silent...🙂
As a sony Walkman or PortableBoomBox is a better device than audio-fool AMT, stupid Electro Magnet Speaker... or my audio-fool Kef 104/2, my stupid Boston Lynfield 400L😀 which have totaly different sound when i change the crappy 1 uF PP cap // to the 10 ohms resitors which too sound totaly different if non inductive or cement ?! It's just 1% of the sound but it changes the 99 other % !
I waste my time with fool Verdi stupid operas😛.... I have to listen to the sound of stars and silent...🙂
If i am right.
Well, i search and i read and probably a L-pad with a 50 microfarad solen cap at 20$ each will do the job. I need to go to that store anyway, my next DIY project will be a Boombox. 😱
Well, i search and i read and probably a L-pad with a 50 microfarad solen cap at 20$ each will do the job. I need to go to that store anyway, my next DIY project will be a Boombox. 😱
Yeap, do what Andrew wrote, he is a specialist.
Think it s the same price than the oil mkp caps...
And tell us how it sounds and what xo you finally choose.
Think it s the same price than the oil mkp caps...
And tell us how it sounds and what xo you finally choose.
Capacitor really essential.
I still had the old L-pad from the ESS speakers and i try it without a capacitor and it sound great. i read here it is not essential. Tweeter protection in active setup
And for a big capacitor i can get these for 10$ 97F6533 - GE - General Electric - CAPACITOR, 30 MFD, 280VAC, CAN, FILM COMPOSITION, +-3% TOLERANCE
I read somewhere i need to inverse the polarity of the tweeters when you go active. In fact i turn the tweeters 180 degrees and it sound different, less forward it seems but the Heils radiate from both sides. I cross at 2k 12db/octaves. .Best regards.
I still had the old L-pad from the ESS speakers and i try it without a capacitor and it sound great. i read here it is not essential. Tweeter protection in active setup
And for a big capacitor i can get these for 10$ 97F6533 - GE - General Electric - CAPACITOR, 30 MFD, 280VAC, CAN, FILM COMPOSITION, +-3% TOLERANCE
I read somewhere i need to inverse the polarity of the tweeters when you go active. In fact i turn the tweeters 180 degrees and it sound different, less forward it seems but the Heils radiate from both sides. I cross at 2k 12db/octaves. .Best regards.
I choose to cross at 2k, i went to the dealer and i got two Solen 30uf for 10$. I also needed to put homemade attenuators between the crossover and the amp for the tweeters because i had too much gain.
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