My first build - Lii Audio and ESS Heil AMT?

[Hawkeye83]

Hey all! Nice to meet everyone here. A little background on my "gear" experience..

Also, I've been hanging around over at Audiokarma for around 7 years now.

I've been into audio my whole life...moreso just enjoying listening to different gear than doing anything technical.

Started at around 5 years old on my parent's 1970's all-in-one system...you know the cheap ones everyone had with the turntable, 8 track, cassette, etc.

Then I got my own "boombox" to listen to around 10 years old.

At 18, I went off to college and inherited a Bose Wave Radio from my uncle.

At 20, I bought my first floorstanders..."white van" "Theater Research" speakers. They actually didn't sound too bad, but when I found out they were "white van," it left a bad taste in my mouth, and I quickly unloaded them.

From there, I bought some Klipsch SF-3 speakers and one of the cooler looking receivers I could find at Best Buy. I kept this system for 10 years!

I started getting more into "serious" gear around age 30, when I had more disposable income. It started when my wife upgraded my turntable from an Audio Technica to a Rega RP-1. Shortly after, I upgraded my electronics, and then my speakers.

Now I'm nearly 37, and been really wheeling and dealing gear for the past 7 years. Just some examples of speaker brands I've had...and sold...Bozak, Wharfedale, KEF (107, 103.2, LS50W), Quad (ESL-57), Apogee, Beveridge (Model 5), Sony SS-M7, Legacy Focus, Tannoy Arden, RCA LC-1A, Magnepan...


So I've been thinking about doing my first build. I currently have some 4 cubic foot cabinets, and also some 10 cubic foot cabinets. I also have some Lii Audio F15 drivers (I will post links to the drivers below). I am currently running the F15's in the small 4 cubic foot cabinets. The sound is pretty good, but lacking in bass. I am going to first try the F15's in the larger cabinets and see how they do on their own. Full range, no crossover.

But, then I thought I would also try a 3-way set-up in these large cabinets.

Lii Audio W15 subwoofer (I'll run it as a powered subwoofer)
Lii Audio F15 midrange
Unknown tweeter - leaning towards ESS Heil AMT for availability, cost, durability, and repairability...but have also looked at other tweeters, like RAAL, Raven Audio, etc (I'd like to try a ribbon, I think...and Raven makes a "point source" ribbon)

I guess some questions I have would be:
- would this work okay if I run the Lii W15 as a subwoofer (powered subwoofer amp with gain and frequency settings), run the F15 full range, and run whichever tweeter I choose with just a capacitor, acting as a frequency filter? So no true "crossover?" Surely there may be some advantages to not using a crossover, right? Purity of the signal, etc.

- or instead of the above, would an active EQ be better? This gives me more "tweakability"...

- do I need to worry about time-alignment?

- if an active EQ is recommended, is there one that would also address any time-alignment issues?

Here is the information on the drivers:

F15 midrange - One Pair | Recommended 15" Full Range Speaker Driver | Fast High and Scaled Sound | F-15 - Lii Audio, unique speaker, amplfier, quality and cost-saving parts for HiFi DIY

Technical Data:
1. PMSE-Free 1.35 Ohms
2. Fs 49.6 Hz
3. Re 6.56 Ohms(dc)
4. Qes 63.78 Ohms
5. Qms 7.45
6. Qes 0.78
7. Qts 0.71
8. L1 0.11 mH
9. L2 0.47 mH
10.R2 3.57 Ohms
11.RMSE-load 0.85 Ohms
13.Vas(sd) 178.5 liters
14.Mms 13.70 grams
15.Cms 1473 uM/Newton
16.Bl 5.92 Tesla-M
17.Splref(sd) 97.2 dB(Re)
18.Rub-index 0.5

Method: Mass-loaded (13 500 grams)

Area (Sd): 146.56 sq cm

Drc mode: Measure (-0.80 ohms)

Qc file: CLOSED

Weight: 11KG



Lii Audio W15 woofer: (Pre-order promo till February) One pair |15 Inch Woofer for Bass Compensation of Open Baffle or Cabinet | W-15 - Lii Audio, unique speaker, amplfier, quality and cost-saving parts for HiFi DIY
Technical Data:
1. Related power – Maximum power 100 – 150W
2. Nominal inpedance Z 8+8 Ohm
3. Frequency response fu-5000 Hz
4. Mean sound pressure level 91dB(2.83V/1m)
5. Resonance frequency fs 28 Hz
6. Qts 0.79

Weight (pair in package) 27.5KG


Not sure on the tweeter, but probably an ESS Heil AMT, Raven, or RAAL.

My cabinets are 46" H x 21" W x 20" D. Is this cabinet size appropriate for this project?

Sorry if this is information overload. This is probably super-basic stuff for you guys. Any information you can point me to, or any guidance, is appreciated!

 

[hweb]

I doubt that you will get much deep bass out of the W15 no matter how large a cabinet you use. The Qts is quite high and, simply judging by the way the driver looks (as there are no Xmax specifications), I doubt that you could EQ your way into deep bass territory. That W15 seems to be best suited for an open baffle system.

 

[xrk971]

The AMT-1 from ESS can work down to 600Hz. I would pick a wide and woofer that plays fairly deep and can go up to say 2k smoothly. Do a crossover at 800Hz to 1kHz with the AMT. A driver that I have very good experience with is the RS225-8 from Dayton. It can be used sealed, ported, or as a TL. Very versatile. Sounds great too. You could do 1st order XO even and make it transient perfect.

Put two RS225-8 in a parallel reflex box and get some good SPL to match the AMT’s sensitivity.

I have actually tired dual RS225-8 in a dual Z baffle dipole with AMT-1 on top. Sounded very nice.

 

[kec]

Put two RS225-8 in a parallel reflex box and get some good SPL to match the AMT’s sensitivity.

I plan on doing this as well. What size cab did you use? I was thinking around 2.5 cu. ft.

 

[xrk971]

I haven’t done it with RS225-8. But just go with their recommended enclosure volume. For two double the volume. PE website recommends 1.25 Cu ft per driver so 2.5cu ft for two. Tune to about 35Hz I think.

 

[Drummer2005]

I plan on doing this as well. What size cab did you use? I was thinking around 2.5 cu. ft.

This might be of interest per the woofer enclosure. Jim Holtz on the bass bin for the Bordeaux that he and Curt Campbell designed. I copied from another site.Glenn.

The "Bass BIN" cabinet of the Bordeaux's measures 11 1/2"W x 22"D x 29" H with a 1 1/2" thick front baffle and 3/4" everywhere else. There are (2) windowpane horizontal braces, one located below the top RS225 and one below the bottom RS225 with short windowpane vertical braces from the top of the cabinet to the top brace and from the bottom brace to the bottom of the cabinet. The cabinet is ported with a 3" precision port (tube is cut to 5" plus the inner and outer flares) which provides a F/3 of around 32 Hz.

The RS225's are the 8 ohm version and they are wired in parallel.

Per Unibox, net volume on the cabinet is about 84 liters less the volume the drivers and the two short vertical braces consume. This is the same net volume as the Anthology's in a different cabinet configuration.

In real world use, the bass is extremely clean, tight and extended. F/10 is in the low 20's.

Sorry, I don't have CAD drawings yet. I still have to finish the rough drawings before someone can convert them to CAD

 

[kec]

Thanks Glenn. I remembered the Bordeaux when you brought it up The total net volume Jim used was 3.262 Ft³. I would adjust it to be a tower about 36" high.

The details were here: It's time for a Bordeaux!

 

[picowallspeaker]

- would this work okay if I run the Lii W15 as a subwoofer (powered subwoofer amp with gain and frequency settings), run the F15 full range, and run whichever tweeter I choose with just a capacitor, acting as a frequency filter? So no true "crossover?" Surely there may be some advantages to not using a crossover, right? Purity of the signal, etc.

Sound is processment, what you hear is what you get.