Multi way horn laboratory - aka man cave

After a long hiatus the man cave / speaker lab has been resurrected. I have most of my parts now and its time to start experimenting in...

Multi way horn design
Synergy concept
Distributed bass
Broadband absorption and diffusion
Maybe some cardioid and dipole experimentation

6m x 6m garage with solid walls. All mine :)

Already have...
Measuring equipment
15" 120L plywood bass boxes (empty)
VFM large 2" exit horn
MCM 6" waveguide
RCF ND450 compression drivers
8" etone mids
Galaxy audio 5" neo mids
CSS BMR 5" and 2 " full range drivers
4 subwoofers in boxes including 1 x eminence lab 12
DIY lean diffusor panels x 4
Ribbon tweeters
Minidsp and 4 x amps plus 500w sub amp
65" plasma TV donated by a friend last week :)
Almost forgot EV 300sx cabs - rear channel?

On its way
Broadband absorption panels
15" woofers TBC maybe celestion TF1520?


Wood cutting courtesy of bunnings. Stay tuned for some pics...
 
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Scott L

Member
Paid Member
2008-12-27 12:32 pm
Knoxville, TN
To start

Start with something relatively simply, to get an earful of what the room sounds like.

Set your equipment up on shelves set off to the side (NOT in between your loudspeakers) and accessible from the back as well (to make changes easy).

Don't forget to treat the garage door (for both acoustics and noise insulation) as well.

Obtain a very large cooler to store the beer in, for you and your buddies :)
 
Embryonic phase...

driver pics next
 

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So I have the 4 sub's setup and flat bass to 30hz. Pretty impressive. It is interesting that 3 sub's couldn't get me there and it was number 4 with reversed polarity that neutralised a big null and it all clicked into place.

Another interesting observation is the the bass seems to lose a bit of "slam" with 4 sub's and instead becomes very smooth and effortless. It would be nice to get a bit of that punch back. Maybe horn loaded low end or more sd? Open to suggestions...

The EVs are super nice with vocals. They will make a decent reference to begin with but I think the new system will out pace them quickly.

Picked up some JBL 2445j thanks to hollowboys scouting and ordered the celestion woofers earlier today. I will have all the drivers in a few days and then the fun part begins :)
 
Slightly off topic but Frangus maybe you're the man to ask?

I don't know much about pro audio speakers but I'm wondering if there are any rough diamonds out there worth keeping my eyes peeled on gumtree for?

Any worth modding or taking drivers from? Reusing horns/waveguides? etc etc.

Cheers.

I don't know a great deal about pro audio but EV, EAW, RCF are good brands to look out for. I find ebay has the occasional bargain so scout there. Some of the better quality JBL gear is good too but expensive here, much like any of the vintage altec systems.

What system size would you be able to accommodate?
 
Frangus, vintage stuff is overpriced, especially here in Perth, although I did nearly score a set of these cheap but the cones were ruined.

Pioneer HPM-150 on thevintageknob.org

I'll keep my eye out for those brands, I wasn't aware of their existence until you mentioned them so you clearly know more than I do.
I don't have a particularly large lounge and I don't listen at very loud levels (I don't think?) but some of these PA speakers seem to offer an awful lot of material value? I'd never have looked at them before I joined this site and saw how popular (and good) so many similar designs appear.
WAF is an issue but she's a very tolerant woman :)

Zobsky, I've been following that thread for some time now, very interesting stuff. I'm still working on getting my head around the theory but maybe something I might try build in the future? My woodworking skills are awful but I did just buy a table saw :D
 
Zobsky, I've been following that thread for some time now, very interesting stuff. I'm still working on getting my head around the theory but maybe something I might try build in the future? My woodworking skills are awful but I did just buy a table saw :D

Then, let me summarize the thread in a few sentences.

Point source synergy horns use a bunch of drivers arranged in a manner that makes the sound cohesive and appear to come from a single point.

The tractrix variants offer better treble extension without the need for extensive EQ, at the cost of treble drop - off axis
The conical / constant directivity variants offer better pattern control, but need a bit of EQ to account for the treble drop off

1. The aim is to use off-the shelf waveguides to build synergy - type point source horns
2. Rather than use compression drivers, these devices use cheaper small full range drivers (that also have better lower frequency response) for treble
3. Typically, the front of the midrange drivers fire into the horn at a point <= 1/4 wavelength of the crossover point, In this case, larger drivers are used (to extend the response lower) and inject into the horn closer to the mouth. Using a DSP for crossover and delay (as well as conventional full range drivers for tweeters) allows us to still make the arrangement work.
 
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It would be nice to get a bit of that punch back. Maybe horn loaded low end or more sd? Open to suggestions...

This in in the mid-bass [~80- 180 Hz] where dual 15" - up/chnl prosound mid drivers excel, so lots of driver, cab alignment options.

FWIW, I used dual 15" 70 Hz truncated compression loaded corner horns for decades, which many folks thought ridiculous in a HIFI system until they played their music at piano bar up to rock concert levels depending on the genre........

That said, I now just have the same drivers in ~20 ft^3, ~16 Hz folded pipe horn cabs ~in the corners and frankly prefer them since they sound more 'open' [no horn throat distortion], yet still retain heart attack 'fast' transients and 'slam' due to 0.2 Qts, though at a much lower efficiency, but still ~103 dB/m chnl down to ~40 Hz where it tapers off a bit due mostly to having so little room gain.

GM
 
Picked up some JBL 2445j thanks to hollowboys scouting and ordered the celestion woofers earlier today. I will have all the drivers in a few days and then the fun part begins :)

Swell. I'd be grateful if you could post measured FR for these + pictures of the diaphragms.

(From the same seller) I have 2 cores and 3 diaphragms:

1 that looks normal, measures as expected (good, but with ragged HF)
1 that has an unusual rib pattern; HF measures better (less droop + much smoother >10kHz)
1 that has an unusual rib pattern; HF measures better when it works - but it is faulty (high Re and sometimes doesn't play at all - cracked VC wire?)

...and I'm curious about which type you got. I haven't yet been exhaustive so it may not be just the diaphragm that explains the measured difference.

Is your plan to run:

Ribbons
2"
15"
Subs?

I'm still modifying / extending my horns, they currently look pretty ugly. I'm thinking of running a 2.5way, hence am interested in getting the best HF I can from my compression drivers (without blowing my budget - e.g. on beryllium):

2"
12" (Faital)
12" (low efficiency SB)
 
This in in the mid-bass [~80- 180 Hz] where dual 15" - up/chnl prosound mid drivers excel, so lots of driver, cab alignment options.

FWIW, I used dual 15" 70 Hz truncated compression loaded corner horns for decades, which many folks thought ridiculous in a HIFI system until they played their music at piano bar up to rock concert levels depending on the genre........

That said, I now just have the same drivers in ~20 ft^3, ~16 Hz folded pipe horn cabs ~in the corners and frankly prefer them since they sound more 'open' [no horn throat distortion], yet still retain heart attack 'fast' transients and 'slam' due to 0.2 Qts, though at a much lower efficiency, but still ~103 dB/m chnl down to ~40 Hz where it tapers off a bit due mostly to having so little room gain.

GM

Thanks GM. I'm not expecting direct radiators to have the same sense slam and will look at horn loaded bass in the not too distant future