Midrange recomendations 300hz to 3khz

brunogiovs

Member
2014-09-29 7:16 pm
Hello

I have a 3 way active system , currently i have a Satori MW16P-4 as the mid range.
So I was looking for a replacement i'm interested in improvements on the 1khz to 3khz .
the only requirements are to the mid range to start at 300hz, 90db or more sensitivity and a price range of ~150 $US.

Thanks
 
The designation is less important than the capability if it's there. ScanSpeak also calls the 10F/8424 a midrange when clearly it can be used as a full range.


The Galaxy S5N-8 might be worth a look as well at 91dB and its called a "full range".

http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/290-020-galaxy-audio-s5n-8-specifications.pdf

And if you really want high SPL capability, the PRV 5MR450-NDY-8 is also worth looking at with about 94dB sensitivity and high power handling. I have these and like how they sound.

http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/294-2705--prv-audio-5mr450-ndy-specifications.pdf
 
Last edited:

brunogiovs

Member
2014-09-29 7:16 pm
The designation is less important than the capability if it's there. ScanSpeak also calls the 10F/8424 a midrange when clearly it can be used as a full range.


The Galaxy S5N-8 might be worth a look as well at 91dB and its called a "full range".

http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/290-020-galaxy-audio-s5n-8-specifications.pdf

And if you really want high SPL capability, the PRV 5MR450-NDY-8 is also worth looking at with about 94dB sensitivity and high power handling. I have these and like how they sound.

http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/294-2705--prv-audio-5mr450-ndy-specifications.pdf

Thanks
 
Yes, probably 4-500 Hz is better.
Regarding the designation of a driver, I also look at the profile of ext. suspension.
If it is too prominent, it might cause diffraction so usability beyond a certain range ( 2 K Hz ) might be an issue. But, hey ! I'm no pro or great designer...nor experienced.
An inverted surround profile might be better -such the Aurum Cantus AC-180 but it's too big ( 7")
 
Yes, probably 4-500 Hz is better.
Regarding the designation of a driver, I also look at the profile of ext. suspension.
If it is too prominent, it might cause diffraction so usability beyond a certain range ( 2 K Hz ) might be an issue. But, hey ! I'm no pro or great designer...nor experienced.
An inverted surround profile might be better -such the Aurum Cantus AC-180 but it's too big ( 7")

Thanks
 
The 5" Tang Band W5-2143 is a $52 full'ish range which will meet your 90db/watt, 300-3000Hz goals with detailed sound from a 6gram Mms and very low Le. In a 0.26cuft sealed volume the F3 is 107Hz for Qtc=0.7 thanks to a Qtc=0.38. It only has a Xmax of 2.5mm, so although it sims to 108db max SPL @1m at 300Hz, expect limited max SPLs in a large room from a small cone area and small Xmax.

Reviews are positive.
 
Both the Scan 10f and the Audax HM100Z0 are very good, although 300Hz on the Audax is pushing it. I've used both of those. For the sake of a few dB you will struggle to find something that actually sounds better than the SB driver over the range you mention though. It's widely accepted to be one of the best conventional drive units of its size, irrespective of cost, although I don't have a pair myself. After baffle step is accounted for it is tough to get much more than 90dB sensitivity from a small drive unit.
 
The Satori is already perhaps the world leader in what you want it to do. The only other driver that I can think of that even comes close is the 18Sound 6ND430-16. Tang Band 75-1558SE may also be a contender if you can accept a 400-500Hz high pass instead of 300Hz. Unfortunately these drivers are becoming increasingly harder to find.

If you want to find a mid that is exceptionally clean from 1-3kHz then you need to look for drivers that start to roll off soon after 3kHz. This is because almost every >5" driver is going to have a voicecoil inductance that causes a rolloff at the top end. Therefore to make a >5" driver with freq response flat out to 10kHz there needs to be some cone breakup nodes to push the frequency response up in the 5-10kHz region to counteract the fact that the motor inductance is causing it to roll off. The problem with doing this is that if the motor is anything less than perfectly linear, the distortion components generated by the motor when the speaker plays from 1-3kHz will be excited by the 5-10kHz cone breakup so the non-linear distortion from 1-3k becomes worse than if the cone was better behaved (and thus the driver would have the freq response rolling off earlier).

The Dayton RS150 is a good example of this. 3rd and 5th order distortion becomes unacceptable on the RS150 above 2kHz because the cone is not well behaved and the distortion generated by the motor gets boosted massively in the 1-3kHz range because all the distortion components land on top of the cone breakup. Still useful as a woofer though. For this reason you should avoid any drivers that have evident breakup at 5kHz+ if you want a low distortion midrange.

So what about the Satori then? Clearly it has some kind of breakup from 5-10kHz (frequency response may maintain 90 odd dB but there is roughness from 5K up) but as seen below it's non-linear distortion remains very low:

Compare:
RS150-4 (-8 and paper will be similar, distortion profile will just follow the FR of the paper cone rather than the metal)
http://www.zaphaudio.com/5.5test/Dayton-RS150-4-HD.gif
Satori:
http://www.zaphaudio.com/temp/Satori-MW165DC-08N36-DA00-HD.gif

The key is that the motor design on the MW16p is exceptionally linear. The distortion components generated by the motor are so small that it no longer matters how misbehaved the cone is - distortion still remains inaudible. Unfortunately, it is not easy to know which drivers have well designed motors like the Satori, 6ND430 and 75-1558SE because the manufacturers do not usually make this data publicly available. The only way is to search for 3rd party measurements or buy drivers and find out for yourself by measuring :).
 
Last edited:
The Satori is already perhaps the world leader in what you want it to do. The only other driver that I can think of that even comes close is the 18Sound 6ND430-16. Tang Band 75-1558SE may also be a contender if you can accept a 400-500Hz high pass instead of 300Hz. Unfortunately these drivers are becoming increasingly harder to find.

If you want to find a mid that is exceptionally clean from 1-3kHz then you need to look for drivers that start to roll off soon after 3kHz. This is because almost every >5" driver is going to have a voicecoil inductance that causes a rolloff at the top end. Therefore to make a >5" driver with freq response flat out to 10kHz there needs to be some cone breakup nodes to push the frequency response up in the 5-10kHz region to counteract the fact that the motor inductance is causing it to roll off. The problem with doing this is that if the motor is anything less than perfectly linear, the distortion components generated by the motor when the speaker plays from 1-3kHz will be excited by the 5-10kHz cone breakup so the non-linear distortion from 1-3k becomes worse than if the cone was better behaved (and thus the driver would have the freq response rolling off earlier).

The Dayton RS150 is a good example of this. 3rd and 5th order distortion becomes unacceptable on the RS150 above 2kHz because the cone is not well behaved and the distortion generated by the motor gets boosted massively in the 1-3kHz range because all the distortion components land on top of the cone breakup. Still useful as a woofer though. For this reason you should avoid any drivers that have evident breakup at 5kHz+ if you want a low distortion midrange.

So what about the Satori then? Clearly it has some kind of breakup from 5-10kHz (frequency response may maintain 90 odd dB but there is roughness from 5K up) but as seen below it's non-linear distortion remains very low:

Compare:
RS150-4 (-8 and paper will be similar, distortion profile will just follow the FR of the paper cone rather than the metal)
http://www.zaphaudio.com/5.5test/Dayton-RS150-4-HD.gif
Satori:
http://www.zaphaudio.com/temp/Satori-MW165DC-08N36-DA00-HD.gif

The key is that the motor design on the MW16p is exceptionally linear. The distortion components generated by the motor are so small that it no longer matters how misbehaved the cone is - distortion still remains inaudible. Unfortunately, it is not easy to know which drivers have well designed motors like the Satori, 6ND430 and 75-1558SE because the manufacturers do not usually make this data publicly available. The only way is to search for 3rd party measurements or buy drivers and find out for yourself by measuring :).
Thanks