Marantz CD12+DA12 vs CD94MKII??

No direct experience, but a comment!

With the separate DAC/Transport the digital interface will use S/PDIF - not so good.

With the CD94 the interface between transport and DAC will be I2S - much better!

So any comparision will not directly tell you whether 1 x TDA1541A S1 is better than 2 x TDA1541A (no crowns)!

And yes I'd be interested in this comparision as well!

Regards,

Jonathan
 
jdunham said:
So any comparision will not directly tell you whether 1 x TDA1541A S1 is better than 2 x TDA1541A (no crowns)!

Just a slight correction. The CD-94MkII uses two TDA1541A/S1.

raychak

I cannot comment on the sound quality of the CD12/DA12 but I would not part with my CD-94MkII which, for me, outperforms the more recent (and more expensive) players with which I have been able to carry out a side-by-side comparision.

I have a short test report from Hi-Fi Answers (Nov 1989) which gives some info on the DAC arrangement in the CD-94Mk2 and also compares it to the CD-12. Email me if you would like a copy.

Edit: forget the email, I have attached a copy.
 

Attachments

  • cd-94mkii.gif
    cd-94mkii.gif
    74.2 KB · Views: 1,049
raychak said:
Any chance that you can post a picture of internal view of your CD94MKII? I really want to see the components used compared to CD12...

Raymond

Sorry, I cannot post a picture - no digital camera. However, if you email me with details of the parts you are interested in I will check the service manual for details.

Note, the service manual quotes TDA1541A/S1, as well as the Hi-Fi Answers article, and I can confirm that my player has the single crown devices.

Geoff
 
Geoff, thanks for the correction/clarification.

I didn't realise the CD94 was a dual TDA1541A as well as the DA12.

I can see why these players/DAC's are still sought after - I recently had the pleasure of listening to a Marantz CD7 in my system, it sounded superb. I guess the CD7 was the "ultimate" CD94 upgrade!

Regards,

Jonathan
 
Raymond

The Hi-Fi Answers article is nearly correct in that the majority of the casework is fabricated from a non-ferrous alloy. However, the back panel, and a smallish bracket on the right hand side, are steel according to my magnet. I cannot tell whether the back panel has been copper plated as it has a thick coating of paint which has not (yet!) been scratched. The bracket has definitely not been plated.

The CDM-1 mechanism appears to be standard, with a non-plated ferrous frame. All screws (except some in the transport assembly) are copper plated. Two small, internal, heatsinks are formed from copper.

The transformer is EI.

Elna Cerafine electrolytics have been used in critical positions in the analogue stage.

Geoff
 

Extreme_Boky

Member
2003-12-07 11:57 am
CD94MKII is TWO TDA1541A or TDA1541AS1....

I second that, and add that they are S1 (single crown) chips.

The CD94MKII I modified sounded very good before any modifications were done.

After the mods, the sound was nothing short of excellent. The owner was so pleased he gave me (apart from stash of money) full set of all PCB's because he "got 2 players in case he needed a spare board..." (!?) They are still fully functional, apart from DAC PCB which now has 2 X TDA1541A. The original S1 crown chips were removed, one of which I use in Pedja's DAC. Just to add, the same guy sold his Marantz S1 SACD player and never looked back at SACD again…

I haven't listened to CD12 and / or DA 12...


Regards,
Extreme_Boky
 
Extreme_Boky said:

I haven't listened to CD12 and / or DA 12...

I've owned a set of CD12+DA12 now, compared with Philips CD960 they sound better in resolution, better bass, not sound 'dark' as CD960 I feel.

I recently offered a Marantz CD94MKII but I still thinking whether I go and get it or I should save the money to make some mods to my CD12+DA12?

I am looking for the schematics of CD12+DA12 but seems difficult to find.

Extreme_Boky, I know that you are expert in CD mods... Could you give some suggestions for simple mods to me? (I am not good in soldering... :cool: ) but I may ask my friend to give me some helps. I read your thread about replacing the capacitors around TDA1541A with BG 0.1uF NX HiQ and mix with other capacitors but I am not very clear how to get it done....

Thanks * Raymond
 

Extreme_Boky

Member
2003-12-07 11:57 am
This is from one of the previous replies. Try also search engine here on forums - there's a lot more info...

Regards,
Extreme_Boky

Here's the list of modifications I did to Marantz CD94II CD player:
Replaced power supply + local decoupling capacitors with my favourites - 2200uF / 35V FK and 0.1uF / 50 NX Black Gates. Capacitor’s paralleling should be avoided.
Installed IEC power connector at the back (silver and then gold plated pins.)
Replaced RCA connectors with high quality types.
Removed back-to-back output signal coupling caps and installed AURI cap 4.7uF / 200V types. You can also try Black Gate 4.7uF / 50V C type. The choice really comes down to your taste.
Used silver ribbon cables everywhere... got rid of connectors.
Used WIMA green-cap polypropylene caps for analogue filtering.
Replaced the xtal with 11.2MHz LC clock with dedicated power supply (with 10 X 470uF / 16V KF Black Gates + two 0.1uF / 50V NX types). The placement of two 0.1uF caps is crucial for obtaining low noise conditions. This is very important – otherwise you are wasting you money on (EXPENSIVE!) LC clock. I removed the original decoupling capacitor that was supplied with the clock (4700uF / 25V, I think...)
Replaced 6 dual ICs with AD8066, AD826 and OP275 in analogue stage.
Replaced two focus / tracking ICs with NE5532AN.
Removed in-series-resistors from the power supply rails and installed ferrite beads. You need a bit of experimenting and CRO to obtain low noise “environment”
(I spent a lot of time getting the CD cradle to run smoothly!)

I did not have the circuit diagram unfortunately. It would’ve helped with mechanism servo and RF, though.
 

Extreme_Boky

Member
2003-12-07 11:57 am
Million dollar question: how would you rate the upgraded CD94 against your Pedja NOS DAC?

Pedja's NOS DAC has the most natural presentation of all DAC's I heard so far. And by quite a margin. Piano sounds like piano - very close to real thing, or as close as I have heard from a DAC / CD player. Some sound very pleasant, some very dynamic, some have very sweet treble - but they all have over processed sound that is not natural to me at all. I still believe that transfer to digital (CD ROM), and then back to analog (CD Player) is the worst thing that could have happened to the original recording / information that was made in the first place in the recording studio. I still prefer 60's – 70’s analog recordings (and purist transfer on to CD) to today’s over processed and ironed-out high definition digital SACD / DVD-A recordings. And I can confirm that many of my customers and friends cherish these ‘analog’ CD recordings very much! But I know many High Enders that would not let digital source come anywhere near their analog setups: turntable, preamp and amp – and that’s it!

Modified CD94MKII was very good and in some areas better than Pedja's DAC. However, I value truthfulness to the original as the most important when it comes to sound reproduction.

I am planing to start a new thread about my experience with Pedja's DAC. I did change / modify couple of things. Overclocker brought so many improvements to the original purist design, but inevitably took a bit of that natural presentation that basic design has. It is nice to have a switch and use DAC only, or DAC with the reclocker - depending on the mood and time of the day.

Extreme_Boky
 
Thanks for the feedback, very interesting.

I still prefer 60's – 70’s analog recordings (and purist transfer on to CD) to today’s over processed and ironed-out high definition digital SACD / DVD-A recordings.

I absolutely agree. Pretty well all my best sounding CD's start life as analog recordings rather than digital, so something is certainly not right. And I inlude a number of recent analog recordings as well.

Modified CD94MKII was very good and in some areas better than Pedja's DAC. However, I value truthfulness to the original as the most important when it comes to sound reproduction.

What areas were better on the CD94II?

Have you used the Pedja DAC with I2S between transport and DAC?

BTW I'm interested in all this as I've just started putting together my own parallel TDA1541A DAC kit.

Regards,

Jonathan
 

Extreme_Boky

Member
2003-12-07 11:57 am
What areas were better on the CD94II?

94 was very dynamic and had the right motional swing. That's it. I blame SPDIF between my transport and NOS DAC for slightly-off timing.

NOS DAC is much better with natural presentation and total fatigue free sound. The whole frequency range is perfectly balanced (took a while to get this right - depends on the rest of the system!). This NOS design made it possible to achieve whatever I desired. This is where it is very different from all other DAC's - it allows you to achieve very nice sound because the basics are already there, and that's simplicity (and nice sounding DAC chip? - probably...) Regarding SPDIF, it is CraP "protocol" - very sensitive to slightest changes. Coax cable is also as much important. There are posts here on forums how to get it right, which is crucial to transport - SPDIF - (any) DAC configuration.

Good luck with your design...

Which one is it?

Extreme_Boky