I found the Manger loudspeaker elements a couple of days ago.
http://www.manger-msw.com/en/index.html
After going through all the information on their page it defenetly is impressive. Now the question. Has anyone heard these elements or their Zerobox loudspeakers and is it in reality just as impressive as they promise it to be on their web page? I also got a DIY prices from them and the price of the element is 1200 DEM a piece which is quite high....
Anyway, if anyone has comments I would appreciate it.
Ergo
http://www.manger-msw.com/en/index.html
After going through all the information on their page it defenetly is impressive. Now the question. Has anyone heard these elements or their Zerobox loudspeakers and is it in reality just as impressive as they promise it to be on their web page? I also got a DIY prices from them and the price of the element is 1200 DEM a piece which is quite high....
Anyway, if anyone has comments I would appreciate it.
Ergo
Check out http://www.e-speakers.com
I have been considering doing a single baffle version of this for use as surrounds in home theater, but it will have to wait.
I have been considering doing a single baffle version of this for use as surrounds in home theater, but it will have to wait.
Ergo, I own a pair of Manger zerobox 109 speakers and offer the following comments.
1 Their main claim to fame is in the transient acuracy department. While this may be commendable, transient perfection is a subtle attribute rather than something that "leaps out at you"
2 In the persuit of transient perfection some more important aspects have been compromised. The most noticeable is directivity at high frequencies. As the dual voice coils are 70mm in diameter this defines the acoustic size of the source in the region where the bending waves originate. Thus at 5kHz the source is almost 1 wavelength and the pattern starts to narrow to the extent that you can loose the high frequencies when sitting down or standing up, depending on where the speakers are aimed.
3 Another problem is that the MSW's generate quite high distortion at a few discrete frequencies. This is a result of the star shaped damping material that is meant to absorb the bending waves vibrating against the membrane.
In summary, I don't think you can design a loudspeaker by latching onto one aspect such as diffraction, transient accuracy etc and ignore other aspects, particularly directivity and bringing directivity under control re frequency. On the plus side the spatial presentation of the speakers was quite good, but no match for the Linkwitz Orion dipoles that I currently use. I found Manger's daughter, Daniella, very pleasant and helpfull in answering my email queries when I bought the MSW's
Keith
1 Their main claim to fame is in the transient acuracy department. While this may be commendable, transient perfection is a subtle attribute rather than something that "leaps out at you"
2 In the persuit of transient perfection some more important aspects have been compromised. The most noticeable is directivity at high frequencies. As the dual voice coils are 70mm in diameter this defines the acoustic size of the source in the region where the bending waves originate. Thus at 5kHz the source is almost 1 wavelength and the pattern starts to narrow to the extent that you can loose the high frequencies when sitting down or standing up, depending on where the speakers are aimed.
3 Another problem is that the MSW's generate quite high distortion at a few discrete frequencies. This is a result of the star shaped damping material that is meant to absorb the bending waves vibrating against the membrane.
In summary, I don't think you can design a loudspeaker by latching onto one aspect such as diffraction, transient accuracy etc and ignore other aspects, particularly directivity and bringing directivity under control re frequency. On the plus side the spatial presentation of the speakers was quite good, but no match for the Linkwitz Orion dipoles that I currently use. I found Manger's daughter, Daniella, very pleasant and helpfull in answering my email queries when I bought the MSW's
Keith
Hi!
I have been loaned a pair of Zeroboxes belonging to the late dad of a friend of a friend . . . and they are GREAT!
I have tested Manger, Tannoy, Lowther and some home built designs head to head - and whilst Lowther are musical, Tannoy spectacular, Mangers are clinically accurate.
Mangers are brilliant for stereo image too - and with the units on the sides provide a stereo field wider than the pair. They are brilliant for baroque ensembles, and my son interested in electronic music mastered on studio monitors drools over them for such. They are exact. Scientifically exact. The music comes from the surface of the box and to that extent it is spacially flat. The music does not jump out at you. My friend who worked with opera a lot remarked at how real opera sounds . . . .
This afternoon we auditioned the Mangers, a Tannoy 12 inch and a pair of Lowther EX4s in front horns with DX2s in Acoustas turned into the corner for bass.
Tannoy - spectacular - wish I had a pair - but a tad harsh on violin and perhaps a hint of tubbiness or confusion in the range between woofer and tweeter.
Lowther . . . well . . . they project - an organ recorded is not reproduced as a recording, it's more there. A violin and piano - perhaps not best recording and sounding as such through the Mangers, unmercifully critically accurately, is audibly a Stadivarius through the Lowthers.
I should add that the Lowther EX4 or DX4 is smoother and sweeter than the PM2C and in the right front horn, balancing the lower midrange with the upper treble, is a smooth and sweet transducer.
The Mangers - if I was able to keep them, I certainly would not say no . . . real accurate monitors, but it's the Lowthers to which I listen to the musicality of music. My friend, however, says that the Lowthers sound like music through a magnifying glass - in some way a recording, whilst for him it's the Mangers that sound real.
If anyone wants a pair, the pair I'm looking after is for sale and I can send anyone their owner's email contact details, even though the day I have to say goodbye to them will be rather sad . ..
Best wishes
David P
I have been loaned a pair of Zeroboxes belonging to the late dad of a friend of a friend . . . and they are GREAT!
I have tested Manger, Tannoy, Lowther and some home built designs head to head - and whilst Lowther are musical, Tannoy spectacular, Mangers are clinically accurate.
Mangers are brilliant for stereo image too - and with the units on the sides provide a stereo field wider than the pair. They are brilliant for baroque ensembles, and my son interested in electronic music mastered on studio monitors drools over them for such. They are exact. Scientifically exact. The music comes from the surface of the box and to that extent it is spacially flat. The music does not jump out at you. My friend who worked with opera a lot remarked at how real opera sounds . . . .
This afternoon we auditioned the Mangers, a Tannoy 12 inch and a pair of Lowther EX4s in front horns with DX2s in Acoustas turned into the corner for bass.
Tannoy - spectacular - wish I had a pair - but a tad harsh on violin and perhaps a hint of tubbiness or confusion in the range between woofer and tweeter.
Lowther . . . well . . . they project - an organ recorded is not reproduced as a recording, it's more there. A violin and piano - perhaps not best recording and sounding as such through the Mangers, unmercifully critically accurately, is audibly a Stadivarius through the Lowthers.
I should add that the Lowther EX4 or DX4 is smoother and sweeter than the PM2C and in the right front horn, balancing the lower midrange with the upper treble, is a smooth and sweet transducer.
The Mangers - if I was able to keep them, I certainly would not say no . . . real accurate monitors, but it's the Lowthers to which I listen to the musicality of music. My friend, however, says that the Lowthers sound like music through a magnifying glass - in some way a recording, whilst for him it's the Mangers that sound real.
If anyone wants a pair, the pair I'm looking after is for sale and I can send anyone their owner's email contact details, even though the day I have to say goodbye to them will be rather sad . ..
Best wishes
David P
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