Making my diy system USER FRIENDLY!

paulspencer · 2005-08-09 4:54 pm

my system needs a delicate ritual, the most annoying part being that I have to turn down the passive attenuators on my sub amp before turning off my eq unit, or I get a big THUMP (even after the amp is OFF for 30 secs)!

so ... on to a user friendly system ... My idea:

* remote mute/volume control for the subwoofer amp
* slave power up mains switching triggered by an old VCR

see this thread: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=699983#post699983

* remote controlled AV selector switch box

http://www.vidcam.com.au/sales/av42gs.html

* learning remote with a macro that turns it all on / off!

http://www.zensonic.com/z150.php

has anyone had some success in getting their system USER FRIENDLY? What did you do? has anyone tried anything like what I'm planning to do?

Remote:

AV switch box:
[IMGDEAD]http://www.vidcam.com.au/sales/img/av42f.jpg[/IMGDEAD]

BillH · 2005-08-09 5:08 pm

Hi, Paul.

I had the same 'thump' problem with a Harman Kardon Citation 12 amplifier. Large turn on and turn off thumps. I added a time delay relay connected to the speaker outputs and all is good.

Here's a circuit that you could try.

paulspencer · 2005-08-14 8:09 am

Update:

I've got the remote at a nice price on ebay $50 and was able to pick it up. It works nicely, although the macro function doesn't seem to do quite what I thought.

AndrewT · 2005-08-14 11:13 am

Hi,
try a mute (FET) across the input inside the power amp.
Could be arranged to delay signal in at switch on and instant mute at switch off.

This could be adopted throughout the system to mute all input signals at switch off. It is fully automatic, no thinking required.

paulspencer · 2005-08-14 1:09 pm

Andrew I like the sound of that. Can it be done OUTSIDE the amp? Can you show me any kind of example?

I am also interested in putting together a circuit which switches on the power amp automatically when there is a signal, like with a plate amp. Does anyone have a schematic for such a circuit?

AndrewT · 2005-08-14 3:31 pm

Hi,
the auto switch on can be found on ESP site ( http://sound.westhost.com. ) It also switches off after a delay on no signal. His relay circuits all have full voltage across the coil when activated. Find a circuit that pulses the relay coil on and then runs at reduced voltage to keep things cooler.
I'll see what I can do generating a schematic of the mute that can be zipped without you needing a schematic reader. It appeared in JLH's writings and only has about 7 components.

AndrewT · 2005-08-14 5:35 pm

Switch on mute

Hi,
I did this schematic in a WORD doc and then zipped it. Let's see if it is visible?
It works as a switch on delay mute.
But may need development as a switch off mute!!
Anyone able to confirm if this simple circuit is a workable switch off mute?
The circuit could just as easily be tacked on to the output of a preamp particularly those that have a switch on thump. Note that the mute shorts the output of the preamp to ground and momentarily loads the preamp with the output impedance as the preamp load (maybe 50r to 200r).

AndrewT · 2005-08-14 5:37 pm

Hi,
I did this schematic in a WORD doc and then zipped it. Let's see if it visible?
It works as a switch on delay mute.
But may need development as a switch off mute!!
Anyone able to confirm if this simple circuit is a workable switch off mute?

djQUAN · 2005-08-14 6:16 pm

my system has three amplifiers (eight channels in all) all with time delay muting. no power switches on most of my line level processors (if they do have one, they're always on the 'on' position) then all the equipment are plugged in a 30A power distribution unit with breakers and magnetic contactor. one switch brings it all to life and there's no thump.

jleaman · 2005-08-14 6:22 pm

AndrewT said:
Hi,
I did this schematic in a WORD doc and then zipped it. Let's see if it visible?
It works as a switch on delay mute.
But may need development as a switch off mute!!
Anyone able to confirm if this simple circuit is a workable switch off mute?

i was once told that a good sounding amplifier has nithing in the signal path

having this mute curcuit would totally ruin the sound..

Always use the kiss method ( Keep-It-Simple-Stupid )

AndrewT · 2005-08-14 7:48 pm

Hi,
the mute circuit (FET) shorts out the input signal until the voltage on its gate rises then it changes to an open circuit and does not affect the sound quality at all. That's what JLH wrote and I believed him.

Jleaman
Can you enlighten us to why it behaves differently.

paulspencer · 2005-08-15 4:39 am

Jleaman,

Nothing in the signal path? Good luck with that! Your amplifier is not really an amplifier, in fact it's not even speaker cable, since even that will theoretically change the signal!

dj, can you tell me a bit more about this power distribution unit? Perhaps a link to an example? Do you have to turn it on with a button you press? I'd like to be able to achieve something similar, only be able to do it from a remote control.

jleaman · 2005-08-15 4:41 am

paulspencer said:
Jleaman,

Nothing in the signal path? Good luck with that! Your amplifier is not really an amplifier, in fact it's not even speaker cable, since even that will theoretically change the signal!

Ok ill re-phrase it.. The less you have in your signal path the best. IE caps resistors's transistors and a mute circuit.. Um why do you need one again ?

AndrewT · 2005-08-15 8:10 am

Hi Jleaman,
I invited you to respond to JLH's mute circuit. Just in case I have misunderstood it.

IF you were right I would completely agree with you on sound contamination.

Please let us have your thoughts, particularly since you were so vehement earlier.

paulspencer · 2005-08-15 1:14 pm

Chip amps for example, have muting built in to them, this means they don't need turn on delays, as this avoids thumps on turning on/off. This is even more important for those who want active speakers where the tweeter will be exposed to thumps without a filter in between. This is standard stuff in most hifi equipment you buy, and in the overall scheme of things, the parts needed to achieve an uneventful turn on/off I'd consider to be transparent.

djQUAN · 2005-08-20 10:02 pm

dj, can you tell me a bit more about this power distribution unit? Perhaps a link to an example? Do you have to turn it on with a button you press? I'd like to be able to achieve something similar, only be able to do it from a remote control.

it is rack mount and acts much like the ones used for computers where you plug in the monitor, printer, cpu etc.

it has a toggle switch which controls all outlets except for a pair of unswitched ones. there are also plugs so you can link and switch them remotely.

something like this.... http://cableorganizer.com/power-distribution/ but mine's two rach unit size and is 30A.

you can see it in here....http://djquan.angelcities.com/secondsys.html in the bottom of the rack.

paulspencer · 2005-08-21 9:18 am

I've purchased a kit to add on to my subwoofer amp as a free standing add on - it has turn on muting, with a relay. If I have any thumps on powering down other upchain components, will such a muting circtuit prevent it going through the amp if they are all switched off at the same time?

I'm now looking into those power distribution boards. Can any of them be controlled with a remote? This would be a nice feature. I'm looking for some I can get in Australia ... any recommendations of suppliers?

djQUAN · 2005-08-21 10:02 am

I got mine surplus.

you could make an IR receiver of some sort and make a remote module, these boards have plugs for wired remote switching. the plugs can also supply DC power, haven't measured the voltage though.

paulspencer · 2005-08-23 2:02 am

UPDATE:

I now have the remote AV switch box and programmable remote. I just press two buttons on the remote, and the TV and source components all go on while I walk to the powerpoint switch for the audio which all comes on without issue. The only problem is there is a noise about 5 seconds after turning it all off which goes to the subs. I hope that this will be resolved with the loudspeaker protection and muting kit I hope to get in the mail this week. At the same time, a remote volume control is coming. Finishing touch will be a slave trigger, which will turn on/off all the audio components when a second (rarely used) old VCR is switched on/off with the remote.

Already this is a big improvement over the painfully slow turn on/off ritual.

paulspencer · 2005-10-25 4:01 pm

finally a user friendly system!

I finally have it all set up running smoothly!

Just press "macro 1" on remote and the whole system comes on, including TV

press "channel +" to watch TV
press play on DVD or video and source switching happens automatically!

"macro 2" turns it all off without any thumps!

I've written a wiki on how to achieve this:

Is your system user friendly?

Making my diy system USER FRIENDLY!

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