I noticed that some of my LPs are quite warped and after some Googling found that some manu's sell so called 'rim dampers' or 'damping rings' for this purpose. Actually dual purpose, apparently: making the record flat, and damping vibrations.
Does anyone have experience with one of those? Is it worthwhile?
Jan
Does anyone have experience with one of those? Is it worthwhile?
Jan
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I guess that you have to put the disc in very hot water so the vinyl becomes moldable 😱
and after that, before the plastic returns solid, you must make it plain 😕
and after that, before the plastic returns solid, you must make it plain 😕
Jan,
I use these outer rings for many years. But not for warped records. For a to badly warped record is IMHO just one place: the BIN, I trough it away.
But just for clamping the record tight to the teller thats how I use these rings.
I prefere a outer limit weight of 500 / 800 gram.
No you miss-guessed. Read the description. It sits on the edge of the record while playing.
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That was one of my questions. Kuzma (I have a Kuzma) has two types, the one for my table is 1300 grams. But from their description it seems it's not a perfect fit, you must use 'stickers' on the inside to center it. I shudder to think what uneven weight does to the motor and bearing.
The other picture shows the rim with an inner disc so you center the assembly on the spindle and then take off the inner disc.
But did you have he impression that it improves the replay quality?
Jan
I haven't used them but remember discussing them a while back. TTweights did some eyewateringly expensive alloy rings, but seem to have given up manufacturing and are just selling excess stock. I was considering them as an easy way to add inertia to a cheap platter. Not sure about the damping claims made for them. But I guess easy to test.
I meant experiment with mass damping on the edge. $400 for a metal ring is not for me! More mate with lathe job.
Merrill offered this as an option on the Heirloom about 25yrs ago, it does work, however a slight miscalculation on the lead in can result in a snapped cantilever. A close friend has one and to me it seems that the risk/benefit ratio favors your preferred cartridge maker. (He might agree)
Yes that's a recurrent theme. The one I have seen (virtually) all have very thin 'lips' where they sit on the record edge to keep clear of the cantilever. Kuzma even recommends to raise the arm as much as possible for this.
@Bill: I was going to have one made by a friend with a metal shop, but the dimensioning is critical. Also was wondering about the weight.
Jan
I first started using these with the aforementioned MERRILL turntable.
There it was an integral part of the platter.
Due to the depth of the ring one did have to tip the tonearm up a good ways to get underneath it.
It could somewhat flatten mildly warped records but as noted before truly warped records are beyond the help pf a ring.
I never tried one of the HEAVY rings from TTWeights. I have a modest copper ring from them which is a little fragile due to being made of copper.
It will interfere with the cartridge (not the stylus) at the beginning of most records. I find that orchestral records are less affected by this.
TTWeights supplied a template for centering which did not do much good. I have had much better results learning to do this by feel. Due to its thinness I can feel underneath the ring and find where the record is. You can also feel the lip of the LP while moving the thing and after practice one gets it right most of the time. There are records that are impossible to center, they are too large and many times are eccentric. Due to the light weight of mine I have never heard any ill effects from the ring. Typical center hole eccentricity swamps this in my experience.
That is the biggest problem with LPs. Would be neat to come up with a simple solution for this but that is something that cannot be fixed simply.
I have this idea of something like that laser cartridge turntable but simplified - using the "cartridge" to generate an eccentricity number. The turntable would have an adjustable spindle with markings (most simply done with an circular insert around the spindle that could be rotated. This would have markings corresponding to the number generated by the "eccentricity calculator" and one would set this before playing the record.
Sorry to get off subject, but there is nothing more corrosive to enjoying music from LPs than that WOW from an eccentric center hole.
I laugh at all of these tables with boulders for platters. I know there is the isolation aspect but there is no way these herculean efforts to reduce platter speed variations can be heard when the record itself is causing more WOW that even average tables.
back to the ring - I will get sick of using it, I hate losing the opening seconds of most records and I will stop using it for awhile but I always return to using it. I find the lighter weight ones are very good at damping the records. I do not hear the effect as much with super heavy records and maybe becasue of this thing I do not find there to be any merit in super heavy records.
So I would recommend using one for record damping and not to add rotational mass to your 'table.
Unfortunately, they are worth the trouble.
There it was an integral part of the platter.
Due to the depth of the ring one did have to tip the tonearm up a good ways to get underneath it.
It could somewhat flatten mildly warped records but as noted before truly warped records are beyond the help pf a ring.
I never tried one of the HEAVY rings from TTWeights. I have a modest copper ring from them which is a little fragile due to being made of copper.
It will interfere with the cartridge (not the stylus) at the beginning of most records. I find that orchestral records are less affected by this.
TTWeights supplied a template for centering which did not do much good. I have had much better results learning to do this by feel. Due to its thinness I can feel underneath the ring and find where the record is. You can also feel the lip of the LP while moving the thing and after practice one gets it right most of the time. There are records that are impossible to center, they are too large and many times are eccentric. Due to the light weight of mine I have never heard any ill effects from the ring. Typical center hole eccentricity swamps this in my experience.
That is the biggest problem with LPs. Would be neat to come up with a simple solution for this but that is something that cannot be fixed simply.
I have this idea of something like that laser cartridge turntable but simplified - using the "cartridge" to generate an eccentricity number. The turntable would have an adjustable spindle with markings (most simply done with an circular insert around the spindle that could be rotated. This would have markings corresponding to the number generated by the "eccentricity calculator" and one would set this before playing the record.
Sorry to get off subject, but there is nothing more corrosive to enjoying music from LPs than that WOW from an eccentric center hole.
I laugh at all of these tables with boulders for platters. I know there is the isolation aspect but there is no way these herculean efforts to reduce platter speed variations can be heard when the record itself is causing more WOW that even average tables.
back to the ring - I will get sick of using it, I hate losing the opening seconds of most records and I will stop using it for awhile but I always return to using it. I find the lighter weight ones are very good at damping the records. I do not hear the effect as much with super heavy records and maybe becasue of this thing I do not find there to be any merit in super heavy records.
So I would recommend using one for record damping and not to add rotational mass to your 'table.
Unfortunately, they are worth the trouble.
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Thanks Rick, that's valuable info.
About the auto-eccentricity-adjustment: I know of at least two turntables that did that automatically. One was a Nakamichi, the other I don't remember. Google should know.
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue33/tx1000.htm
Jan
About the auto-eccentricity-adjustment: I know of at least two turntables that did that automatically. One was a Nakamichi, the other I don't remember. Google should know.
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue33/tx1000.htm
Jan
I have from TTWeights a TTCopperHead (center weight) and Copper DP32 (outer ring).
The 'centering template' works perfectly for me. However, I could see there would be an issue with 180 gram or greater weight vinyl if I used a platter mat of any thickness greater than a couple of millimetres as the hole in the center of the the template would then be at the part of the spindle that has reduced diameter due to taper and would allow for some 'play'. I have no issues dropping the stylus into the lead in groove.
I never play vinyl without the center weight and ring, my ring is heavy enough to flatten any warps on the records I have.
As noted, TTW products were expensive but of very high quality in my opinion. Larry Dunham, the owner, closed his business in the fall.
The 'centering template' works perfectly for me. However, I could see there would be an issue with 180 gram or greater weight vinyl if I used a platter mat of any thickness greater than a couple of millimetres as the hole in the center of the the template would then be at the part of the spindle that has reduced diameter due to taper and would allow for some 'play'. I have no issues dropping the stylus into the lead in groove.
I never play vinyl without the center weight and ring, my ring is heavy enough to flatten any warps on the records I have.
As noted, TTW products were expensive but of very high quality in my opinion. Larry Dunham, the owner, closed his business in the fall.
I was familiar with the NAKAMICHI.
Problem with it was the mechanism to effect the change had many sonic problems. Nobody would want a platter and tonearm so loosely coupled. You gave up too much in exchange for concentricity.
That's why I suggest the rotating centerpiece to adjust the spindle, manually, since I cannot image any way to do this electrically without problems.
Problem with it was the mechanism to effect the change had many sonic problems. Nobody would want a platter and tonearm so loosely coupled. You gave up too much in exchange for concentricity.
That's why I suggest the rotating centerpiece to adjust the spindle, manually, since I cannot image any way to do this electrically without problems.
Jan,
IMHO yes! I d`nt play never without a outer ring.
Hans.
p.s. Still looking for a decent ring in ebony.
Adjusting the centrepiece in order to centre the record seems to be challenging in terms of accuracy. It might be easier to trim the outside of the record.
Of course the killer is measuring the eccentricity. Other than playing the record and minimising the 0.55Hz FM by moving it around it around. you are talking fractions of a mm.
We can make a simple small latch (lets call it Hiten's Vinyl latch 🙂) of light weight plastic/metal as shown in attached picture below. Inside resides high tension spring. We can use three to four on vinyls at even distance. These would be pretty handy. As not all vinyls would be of same diameter not all vinyl would fit metal platter ring perfectly. Due to light weight it would not put pressure on bearing and motor. if vinyls are offcenter it would also not exaggerate uneven weight and wow. We can also make simple tiny metal latch like this... Link.
Regards.
Regards.
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