Good Morning
A friend has asked me for assistance with his three-way speakers which are now sounding "muddy". They are Lorantz brand bought in Australian around 1975 or so; his amplifiers and CD players are Luxman. The base driver in one box is a ten inch (250mm) Etone 518 [not Eton] and in the other box it is an unbranded generic ten inch - possibly replaced during a servicing many years ago. My friend who has a very good ear did not pick any difference in sound until I asked about those drivers!
I cannot find out anything specific about the speakers or drivers - Thiel Small parameters, crossover schematic, etc.
The surrounds have perished, and the capacitors in the crossovers look well used, but the inductors and resistors still look new. Cost of new surrounds is Aus$60, Solen capacitors Aus$160. (NOTE: Aus$1 = US$0.99 = Brit Pound 0.70.)
He is an extremely accomplished woodworker and a semi-professional musician. His musical tastes are catholic with an eclectic preference to classical music, opera, heavy organ recitals, folk and russian choirs.
His basic questions are:
ONE: Should he fix the existing speakers? My view is do the surrounds (cheap) then listen - this will buy him time for thinking about other options.
TWO: Replace the bass drivers with something very good, possibly ScanSpeak 25W8565-01, and later transfer these plus the existing midrange and tweeter to new boxes that he builds. I have no idea how well a replacement driver will go in his boxes or with his existing mid and tweeter. or
THREE: Just build the boxes and buy new drivers.
Any help, guidance or advice will be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Graeme
A friend has asked me for assistance with his three-way speakers which are now sounding "muddy". They are Lorantz brand bought in Australian around 1975 or so; his amplifiers and CD players are Luxman. The base driver in one box is a ten inch (250mm) Etone 518 [not Eton] and in the other box it is an unbranded generic ten inch - possibly replaced during a servicing many years ago. My friend who has a very good ear did not pick any difference in sound until I asked about those drivers!
I cannot find out anything specific about the speakers or drivers - Thiel Small parameters, crossover schematic, etc.
The surrounds have perished, and the capacitors in the crossovers look well used, but the inductors and resistors still look new. Cost of new surrounds is Aus$60, Solen capacitors Aus$160. (NOTE: Aus$1 = US$0.99 = Brit Pound 0.70.)
He is an extremely accomplished woodworker and a semi-professional musician. His musical tastes are catholic with an eclectic preference to classical music, opera, heavy organ recitals, folk and russian choirs.
His basic questions are:
ONE: Should he fix the existing speakers? My view is do the surrounds (cheap) then listen - this will buy him time for thinking about other options.
TWO: Replace the bass drivers with something very good, possibly ScanSpeak 25W8565-01, and later transfer these plus the existing midrange and tweeter to new boxes that he builds. I have no idea how well a replacement driver will go in his boxes or with his existing mid and tweeter. or
THREE: Just build the boxes and buy new drivers.
Any help, guidance or advice will be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Graeme
You'd probably get more responses if you'd posted in the multiway section of the forum rather than fullrange (which largely deals with wide-band transducers). However, FWIW, if your friend is (was) happy with the sound of the speakers as they were, and he could find a suitable re-foaming kit, then it might be worth doing that in the short term.
Long term, assuming he can afford to do so, he'd probably be better off starting from scratch. There are any number of excellent DIY designs and kits out there which will I suspect be substantially superior to his old speakers, so if nothing else, it might be worth his while to do a little research to see if anything catches his eye.
Long term, assuming he can afford to do so, he'd probably be better off starting from scratch. There are any number of excellent DIY designs and kits out there which will I suspect be substantially superior to his old speakers, so if nothing else, it might be worth his while to do a little research to see if anything catches his eye.
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Scottmoose replied as follows:
You'd probably get more responses if you'd posted in the multiway section of the forum rather than fullrange (which largely deals with wide-band transducers). However, FWIW, if your friend is (was) happy with the sound of the speakers as they were, and he could find a suitable re-foaming kit, then it might be worth doing that in the short term.
Long term, assuming he can afford to do so, he'd probably be better off starting from scratch. There are any number of excellent DIY designs and kits out there which will I suspect be substantially superior to his old speakers, so if nothing else, it might be worth his while to do a little research to see if anything catches his eye.
Thanks Scott; a mistake by me. I have repeated the above post on "Multiway", but I do not know how to close this thread.
Please, everyone, help me out on Multiway, but let this thread die.
My friend is extremely involved in the music, but is not interested in the audio equipment, so long as it reproduces his music well. Cost is not a big issue. That he has enjoyed his speakers for 30+ years teamed with Luxman, and given his very educated and critical ear, suggests that the drivers were originally of quite high quality. Hence the consideration of reboxing them. After all, they pre-date Thiel-Small parameters.
I suspect your refoam and start again might be the best solution, but ... Perhaps one (or more) of our Australian members may have experience with Lorantz and/or Etone.
I would like to explore all reasonable possibilities before offering an opinion.
Cheers
Graeme
PS: This reply has been transferred from a thread erroneously started in "Full Range" forum.
You'd probably get more responses if you'd posted in the multiway section of the forum rather than fullrange (which largely deals with wide-band transducers). However, FWIW, if your friend is (was) happy with the sound of the speakers as they were, and he could find a suitable re-foaming kit, then it might be worth doing that in the short term.
Long term, assuming he can afford to do so, he'd probably be better off starting from scratch. There are any number of excellent DIY designs and kits out there which will I suspect be substantially superior to his old speakers, so if nothing else, it might be worth his while to do a little research to see if anything catches his eye.
Thanks Scott; a mistake by me. I have repeated the above post on "Multiway", but I do not know how to close this thread.
Please, everyone, help me out on Multiway, but let this thread die.
My friend is extremely involved in the music, but is not interested in the audio equipment, so long as it reproduces his music well. Cost is not a big issue. That he has enjoyed his speakers for 30+ years teamed with Luxman, and given his very educated and critical ear, suggests that the drivers were originally of quite high quality. Hence the consideration of reboxing them. After all, they pre-date Thiel-Small parameters.
I suspect your refoam and start again might be the best solution, but ... Perhaps one (or more) of our Australian members may have experience with Lorantz and/or Etone.
I would like to explore all reasonable possibilities before offering an opinion.
Cheers
Graeme
PS: This reply has been transferred from a thread erroneously started in "Full Range" forum.
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I believe Lorantz still make drivers somewhere in the backblocks of Melbourne, although they are guitar oriented, if you track them down they may be able to help. Lorantz Audio Services | Professional Audio, Loud Speakers, Sound Systems
Etone are still at it in Sydney too: ETONE SPEAKERS PRO AUDIO PA HI FI HOME THETRE SPEAKER SYSTEMS SPEAKER REPAIRS RECONE KITS HF DRIVER DIAPHRAGMS CROSSOVERS
Personally, I'd go for option 3, he'll end up with much better sound if he choses wisely...
Etone are still at it in Sydney too: ETONE SPEAKERS PRO AUDIO PA HI FI HOME THETRE SPEAKER SYSTEMS SPEAKER REPAIRS RECONE KITS HF DRIVER DIAPHRAGMS CROSSOVERS
Personally, I'd go for option 3, he'll end up with much better sound if he choses wisely...
Thanks Peter
I had a look at both websites. It seems that Etone has stopped making drivers but now rebrands Chinese ones, and that Lorantz is primarily a guitar speaker manufacturer and perhaps a custom speaker maker. Neither website appears to have any historical or classical product information.
I have emailed both companies and we will see what they come up with - will keep forum informed.
Probably agree that option three is best. He is an audio user, not really interested in the hardware, just interested what he hears. My experience is limited but he will probably accept my advice - an onerous task to ensure that "he'll end up with much better sound if he chooses wisely..."
Cheers
Graeme
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No help from either Etone or Lorantz.
Will suggest to my friend that we replace the surrounds first. Cheap & easy task.
Then do some listening tests with the refurbished Lorantz's. How do they compare with commercially available speakers. ie How much does he have to spend to get a worthwhile improvement in sound quality.
What DIY speaker projects give comparable quality? As I said before, he is an extremely accomplished woodworker and a semi-professional musician. His musical tastes are catholic with an eclectic preference to classical music, opera, heavy organ recitals, folk and russian choirs. Lots of bass, but the WAF may restrict cabinet size to 50 litres or so.
Any suggestions as to what we should be considering?
Cheers
Graeme
Will suggest to my friend that we replace the surrounds first. Cheap & easy task.
Then do some listening tests with the refurbished Lorantz's. How do they compare with commercially available speakers. ie How much does he have to spend to get a worthwhile improvement in sound quality.
What DIY speaker projects give comparable quality? As I said before, he is an extremely accomplished woodworker and a semi-professional musician. His musical tastes are catholic with an eclectic preference to classical music, opera, heavy organ recitals, folk and russian choirs. Lots of bass, but the WAF may restrict cabinet size to 50 litres or so.
Any suggestions as to what we should be considering?
Cheers
Graeme
Thanks Peter
Two interesting sites, but it must be qualified as we are in Australia. (eg Seas speakers are no longer available here, I think.)
Have also drooled over Linkwitz's Orions, and followed Godzilla's BIB site.
But how does one choose without hearing them all??
Cheers
Graeme
You can get them and a whole lot of other brands from the North East Island of Oz, also called Unzud. Shipping is very reasonable.
HAS Audio
I'd replace the surrounds on the existing drivers, and only bother replacing the caps if they're electros. Also look at Soundlabsgroup in Oz for reasonably priced Mundorf (white ones) caps.
SEAs are available from HAS audio in NZ at reasonable prices.
I'd say the styles of music mentioned above would require a 2.5 or 3 way, beyond that I'd let budget and cabinet taste dictate your choice...
I'd say the styles of music mentioned above would require a 2.5 or 3 way, beyond that I'd let budget and cabinet taste dictate your choice...
Thanks Peter and Brett
Had a quick look at HasAudio; great range and their prices look competitive especially given exchange rates. Shipping certainly is reasonable - free to NZ & Oz on orders over NZ$599 and under 20 lb. Easy to make sure driver orders fit that spec.
The more I think about it, the more I am heading as you suggest.
Jan has very high level woodworking skills - lovely home full of his furniture - and he has some very attractive myrtle (nothofagus cunninghami) selected for the cabinets. Expects something special.
Cheers
Graeme
Had a quick look at HasAudio; great range and their prices look competitive especially given exchange rates. Shipping certainly is reasonable - free to NZ & Oz on orders over NZ$599 and under 20 lb. Easy to make sure driver orders fit that spec.
The more I think about it, the more I am heading as you suggest.
Jan has very high level woodworking skills - lovely home full of his furniture - and he has some very attractive myrtle (nothofagus cunninghami) selected for the cabinets. Expects something special.
Cheers
Graeme
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