In my last design I didn't look to save money on crossover parts. There for I used 14 or 15 gauge wire air core inductors for the mids and tweeter circuits. I did use steel core inductors for the woofers to keep the resistance down. I used mostly Audyn Q4's capicitors. Obviously I did keep cost in mind because I used reasonably priced parts. What I'm looking for is some guidance where I can save a little. For instance can I use smaller gauge inductors for the mids or tweeters? I would still like to avoid electrolytics, just mostly looking at what everyone is doing to keep things smaller and cheaper. Honestly I'm more concerned about saving space, some of these large value parts are hug.
Yes you can use smaller coils, even smaller caps for mid and tweeter.
Something to realise is that audiophile experts, skilled as they may be, have a business catering to a certain group of audiophiles. The charge full premium prices for everything. When their kind of perfectionism is not required you can save yourself a ton of money.
Hint: There really is no such thing as an "audio" or "audiophile" grade part. There are parts made for various applications that we can use... but there is no factory making high end parts just for us.
As for air vs ferrite or iron core inductors, the issue is saturation... but that's only going to happen at very high power levels. Unless you're entertaining your entire block, it's seldom a real world issue.
Look for lower priced film or foil caps, even electrolytics are ok at lower power levels.
Work up your design in XSim and have a look at the voltage and current panels as you work. You may not need 200 volt caps or 12 amp coils. If you design carefully keeping the load on your parts down, the price will follow.
If you want you can post the DXO file from XSim here and I can have a look at it for you.
Something to realise is that audiophile experts, skilled as they may be, have a business catering to a certain group of audiophiles. The charge full premium prices for everything. When their kind of perfectionism is not required you can save yourself a ton of money.
Hint: There really is no such thing as an "audio" or "audiophile" grade part. There are parts made for various applications that we can use... but there is no factory making high end parts just for us.
As for air vs ferrite or iron core inductors, the issue is saturation... but that's only going to happen at very high power levels. Unless you're entertaining your entire block, it's seldom a real world issue.
Look for lower priced film or foil caps, even electrolytics are ok at lower power levels.
Work up your design in XSim and have a look at the voltage and current panels as you work. You may not need 200 volt caps or 12 amp coils. If you design carefully keeping the load on your parts down, the price will follow.
If you want you can post the DXO file from XSim here and I can have a look at it for you.
Carli Capacitors: Madisound Speaker Components
bypass with:
MKP1837310164W Vishay / Roederstein | Mouser
Resistance from an inductor matters, so you have to look at the circuit relative to resistance.
I personally like higher gauge litz-wire for the treble, and I think the highest gauge offering is from Solen (16). This might be an area for DIY wind-it-yourself air-core inductors if you desire a higher gauge.
Litz Wire | MWS Wire
On a value basis, it's tough to out-do Erse:
Audio Grade Coils and Inductors | ERSE
bypass with:
MKP1837310164W Vishay / Roederstein | Mouser
Resistance from an inductor matters, so you have to look at the circuit relative to resistance.
I personally like higher gauge litz-wire for the treble, and I think the highest gauge offering is from Solen (16). This might be an area for DIY wind-it-yourself air-core inductors if you desire a higher gauge.
Litz Wire | MWS Wire
On a value basis, it's tough to out-do Erse:
Audio Grade Coils and Inductors | ERSE
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Some audiophile caps are huge because they use a non-inductive winding scheme, and some because they are rated to several hundred Volts. Neither of these is essential.
Coil resistance can be figured in to a crossover. Although lower is often easier for woofers, higher can also work within reason.
Coil resistance can be figured in to a crossover. Although lower is often easier for woofers, higher can also work within reason.
Do they actually make them or are they just re-branded from some other company?
That is ... they can market them as such, but there is no specific "audio grade" in parts specifications... most are either consumer, commercial, aeronautic or military...
..Erse certainly does.
Reliable Capacitors
Speakers Intertechnik - About Us
I'm pretty sure that Mundorf does as well.
Reliable Capacitors
Speakers Intertechnik - About Us
I'm pretty sure that Mundorf does as well.
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Electrolytic bi-polar caps are fine in parallel legs and offer the smallest physical volume.
Tweeter series caps are where people might spend a little more. For me that means no more than Clarity CSA caps (series only) which aren't very big for the <~15uF values used in most tweeter circuits
18/19/20 awg inductors are fine - especially if you can factor in the resistance and get rid of adding resistors as noted above.
For woofers, I tend to go iron core for space saving and 15awg - not because "bigger is better" but to reduce resistance and maximise sensitivity.
Of course you can do away with all of the above and go active.
Tweeter series caps are where people might spend a little more. For me that means no more than Clarity CSA caps (series only) which aren't very big for the <~15uF values used in most tweeter circuits
18/19/20 awg inductors are fine - especially if you can factor in the resistance and get rid of adding resistors as noted above.
For woofers, I tend to go iron core for space saving and 15awg - not because "bigger is better" but to reduce resistance and maximise sensitivity.
Of course you can do away with all of the above and go active.
Thanks for all the input. So I will look at using higher gauge inductors for the parallel legs in the mid bandpass and tweeters high pass circuits. If I need BSC I will continue using 14 to 16 gauge inductors.
You may also consider using XMachina program for the task, as it has a 'circuit price optimization' feature. All you need to do do is to create R, L, C lists with price included (can be different for each way ). Then in the task setup window tick the 'reduce circuit price' as part application strategy in the design. (link)
JB Capacitor Company makes audio capacitors. Their prices are cheap compare to other brands (as per some reviews).
<jb Capacitors Company - Audio Capacitors Manufacturer>
<jb Capacitors Company - Audio Capacitors Manufacturer>
All good advice, I will be creating a new thread for my latest product. Hope I get plenty of help.
